Promoting my own product... advice? (31)
Hey guys... my partner and I have been working full time for the last 4 months trying to get some traction with CPA offers on FB campaigns. Basically, simple surveys with email submits.
So far, we've pretty much been break even or at a small loss over the last 4 months. Considering that, if we ever get a high positive ROI campaign, others are sitting ready to rip our campaigns, it's hard to see this as an intelligent course to continue on.
Conversely, I've got a digital product in the MMA (mixed martial arts) niche priced at $147 that I don't actively promote. However, people seem to find that products website and the occasional sales continue to roll in... 2 this last week alone ($296 profit).
I thought my potential would be much bigger promoting CPA offers, but after a combined 8 months of effort with no success, and seeing my own product still generating sales with absolutely no current marketing involved AND having little chance of it being ripped by other marketers, I'm starting to think I'd be better off to return to promoting my own product.
Bear in mind, when I originally promoted my product before entering CPA, I didn't have the same level of tracking, optimizing and FB bidding skills that I do now (due to STM & promoting CPA offers). The result may be different this time.
So... before setting my plan to move forward, any advice from any of you as to how you would approach this?
Everyone likes and is better at different things, so technically there's no 'right' answer for you.
CPA marketing other peoples offers is sometimes not the smartest move. Think of where you could have been if you spent those 8 months building up/marketing your product. At the same time in those 8 months you could have been doing huge numbers with CPA offers. I would try it, give it a full month of hustle and you'll know at the end of the month what to do 
@radiosurf
I’ve been in the Info-Marketing business since 1996, and really have had my own consistent line of products in the dating market for men since 2004, augmented by CPA offers, affiliate offers, and ad revenue. I can tell you there is an enormous opportunity in the MMA market, and if you have a product that is selling because people bumbled onto the site, the odds are you have a clear winner.
MMA people are exactly what you want in a market—they are “irrationally passionate,” and a lot of them want to duplicate the training regimens, supplement regimens, fighting techniques, etc. of their favorite fighters, all of whom have fan pages on Facebook. There are also MMA magazines full of direct marketing ads, meaning that market is full of buyers.
MMA is also an expanding market, created and driven by enormous TV exposure. Once someone becomes a rabid fan, they stay that way for life, meaning their lifetime customer value can be enormous.
For this, you want to build an email list (AND a direct mail list), and sell your product(s) to that list, as well as every other MMA product, or related CPA product you can think of. These guys will buy supplements, they will buy fitness offers, dating offers, and some will even buy money-getting offers (if positioned as a way to earn extra money to spend on their MMA training efforts).
You can build what we call a “power of small numbers” business in the MMA market, although since it is large and growing, it can become a big numbers business. A “power of small numbers” business is an information marketing business where a relatively small list can spend a relatively large amount of money with you each and every year. Done right, where you are offering high dollar products, putting on seminars, holding masterminds, developing a membership site with continuity revenue, you can approach the “Kennedy Gold Standard” of $1,000 per member per year…that’s a million a year from 1,000 crazy customers who love MMA. Of course you may never get that high, but $300 per year per customer is absolutely doable because of the irrational passion of this market, and the huge array of products to sell to them.
You can immediately double the revenue on your current product by creating a “basic/deluxe split,” simply adding a bulked up “deluxe version” of your current product and pricing it at $297. You can also add a pre-checkout upsell for another add on for, say, $100 or so, and you will have a shockingly high number of people take it. Usually 13% will take the deluxe with upsell, 38% will take the deluxe and the rest will take the basic only—your conversion rate will stay the same, but your transaction value will increase dramatically, allowing you to play in more expensive media. And this doesn’t even include adding a continuity/membership site to the product, post transaction 1 click upsells, etc.
If you want to see an example of how I do the basic/deluxe split with expensive pre-checkout upsell, have a look at this very ugly order form:
http://www.johnalanis.com/ultimate_order.php
I could go on for days about this, but the upshot is, you have an enormous opportunity in that market, and it is worth building it out. Some of you may remember the name Matt Furey, and I knew Matt for awhile. Back in 2004 he had a business with an email list of 27,000 buyers and he would take out as much as $365,000 in a single month from that list (for his “Combat Conditioning” products). That rabidity exists in the MMA market, so you have an enormous opportunity in front of you, worth exploiting.
If you guys want to know more about this, just ask, and I’m happy to share what I know about the Info products business….
Originally Posted by radiosurf
Man, the value in this thread is getting ridiculous. (Please keep it up - I'm taking notes.)
I'm going to have to devote an entire section in the newsletter to all the knowledge bombs you've dropped here.
I'm not going to lie, I've bookmarked john's post history.
Hey @johna5150 - thanks for such a detailed response. Yes, I absolutely do want to hear what you've got to say about the info product business. Any advice is appreciated.
Just a bit about my background in the online MMA niche... I've already done a fair amount of what you're recommending. I've got an email list of about 10,000. About 4,000 are buyers of a $500 physical MMA product that I've been promoting for the last 8 years. Most of those buyers came from Google organic search & Adwords. The volume of sales of that product is decent, but in 8 years of trying, I've never been able to increase the # of sales of that physical product significantly. Sales don't decrease either... it's just the type of product that, when someone's ready to buy, they search it on Google, compare it with the competition, and make a buying decision. Pitching the benefits to email subscribers has never really been effective, although occasional sales are generated from the product link being in my sig file.
Approx. 500 of those buyers have also purchased the $147 digital product I mentioned in my 1st post. As is typical, it was easy to sell that product to my list of previous buyers (during a launch). However, after exhausting that group of buyers, it's been difficult to convert those who came onto my list from a free ebook signup into buyers. Similar to the physical product, my efforts at pitching that product to my list doesn't generate many sales.
So, although business has been consistent with that physical product for several years, it's been difficult to increase sales, and the number of similar competing products is increasing.
Some of the difficulties I face in that niche are
1.) Growing the list with with a free ebook signup doesn't convert into sales of the physical or digital product. I've tried using Autoresponder Madness, Follow-up Cash Machine, mini-launches and other methods, but it just hasn't turned a significant number of them into buyers of my current products.
2.) Creating more mma info products is getting difficult. I'm in my mid-50's now and a full-time online marketer. Other guys working in this niche are full-time MMA guys in their 20's & 30's with MMA world champ titles and built-in credibility. It's kind of tough to compete with that, although I've got a life-time of experience in martial arts & self-defense in general. I also find that I'm personally very different in behavior from the online MMA community, making me not want to interact with them in social media... I'm just not part of that crowd.
3.) Doing JV's where I launch other peoples products has basically ended up with the JV's getting my buyers on their list, making my list less responsive. And, I've been unsuccessful at getting JV's to reciprocate by promoting my products.
4.) Possibly the BIGGEST issue has been finding a consistent, effective protocol to follow to build my income in the niche. As you know, there's many avenues to go with internet marketing. I've tried a number of them over the years which I haven't been able to make work, so finding or defining a specific "plan" or system to follow to build my business/income would be really helpful.
Originally Posted by johna5150
@radiosurf
Are you on Lloyd Irvin's email list? If you're in MMA, I'm sure you've heard his name...what a lot of people don't know is what a great marketer Lloyd is...first and foremost I'd recommend getting on his list if you're not already and paying very close attention to what he does, particularly how he moves customers from one topic to another. Keep in mind your customers and list are interested in buying SOMETHING...it's just a matter of finding out what it is.
The other question I'd ask is, have you created a "larger than life personality" to be the face of the list, the "cartoon character" the list tunes into every day? That can often be the key to businesses like this...Ron LeGrand is certainly a competent teacher of real estate investing, but there are many of those who are probably somewhat smarter than he is. What drives Ron's business is his creation of the "Ron LeGrand Superhero" persona that gets his customers to buy because they like "Uncle Ron" and want to be around him and his personality as much as they want the information. The MMA market is "programmed" to follow "cartoon characters" and that's what really drives these businesses....I refer to myself in mine as "John Alanis, The King of Let 'em Come To You," a ridiculous name on its face, but a very effective one for a "cartoon character." Believe it or not, I get a lot of email from my subscribers that starts with..."Hey, King..."
Originally Posted by radiosurf
Please keep posting these knowledge bombs John, I'm building up my own cheat sheets from the info you are posting
@johna5150
Yes, I've been on Lloyd Irvin's list for years, listened to some of his IM webinars and even tried to get him to launch my digital product. Also studied the System Seminars where he got his start. Your right, he's a very good marketer.
Regarding the "larger than life personality", not really sure how to play that. I know that Lloyd used an superman caricature of himself, but he also has a BJJ blackbelt and UFC fighter's in his stable to give him credibility. As an older guy with back pain issues, without the credentials Lloyd has, or the ability to continually create more quality mma info products, I'd need to position myself in a way to be promoting other's products rather than creating & promoting more of my own.
Even though I've got a bit of a reputation in the mma niche due to the couple products I've sold and my JV efforts, I really don't enjoy holding myself out publicly as a big deal in mma. It's a close-knit online community that tends to be very critical of others, and both good & bad reputations spread like wild-fire. Lloyd's got a really horrible rep now from some recent events. Fortunately, he's got a thick skin (and millions). I unfortunately don't, so each time I read a negative comment about me or my products, it creates a real psychological barrier to building a reputation in that niche. I've gone as far as hiring an assistant to read my emails for me so I don't have to hear any negativity! That's part of the reason I decided to try CPA... to be more anonymous, or at least work in a niche that's not so critical of others.
Anyway, I know I can continue to build a email list in the mma niche at about .50 - 1.00 per subscriber. Possibly the best route would be to simply continue to build the list, segment it as much as possible, keep throwing different affiliate offers at them until they buy or die, and see it gives a positive ROI.
@radiosurf - do you use your real name when selling, or a pseudonym? Pseudonyms are great in any highly contentious niche.
@caurmen - I've always used my real name, since I had been creating video info products & blogs that I was in. Maybe I'll start using a pseudonym for future list building in the niche, either as a fictitional person or just an entity.
BTW, a bit of good news... I already had a conversion on that $147 digital product that I mentioned in my 1st post (running a Facebook campaign It's just a slightly positive ROI so far (spent almost $147), but haven't optimized at all yet, so maybe this campaign will work out better than the CPA offers I was running.
I'm thinking I will simultaneously build a list in the niche while running campaigns to this product. Possibly run a controlled experiment of gathering 500 -1000 new list members, run affiliate offers to them for the next 3 months to see if I can get a positive ROI on what I spent on building that list, and if yes, rinse & repeat.
Well, a quick update... applying my CPA knowledge to my own digital product (rather than a CPA offer) is looking like it may pay off. Already have a MUCH higher ROI than I'd achieved promoting CPA offers. Out of the 3 creatives I'm running, 2 have bombed, but the 3rd is absolutely killing it. If I had tried out only the 1st 2 creatives, I would have given it up for dead. Sort of points out the importance of testing multiple creatives, doesn't it?
Originally Posted by radiosurf
Originally Posted by radiosurf
@radiosurf
There are several things to be addressed here, but the first one is concept of “using what you have.” I’ll illustrate with “the story of two Craigs,” a story you may have heard…but it’s worth retelling.
Craig #1, Craig Forte has been in the realtor niche since the 90’s, teaching commissioned residential real estate agents how to make money with direct marketing methods. The only thing Craig knows about real estate (and he will cheerfully admit this) is that he bought a house once. So, with no “credentials,” no in field experience, and not even a real estate license (unless he recently got one), here’s his story and character:
“I’m the expert from afar, someone who brings in fresh ideas from outside the realtor niche, cutting edge ideas that have been proven to work in other niches, but are not yet being used in real estate. Every other trainer is teaching the same tired old rehashed material with a different name on it, and what I have to teach you from outside the industry is something totally new, something completely different that will turn you into a top producer. I bring fresh eyes and perspective to a myopic industry.”
Craig #2 is Craig Proctor. For many years he was the #2 ReMax agent in North America, and his schtick is this:
“Unlike others who claim to be from outside the industry, I’m the ultimate insider, in the trenches just like you, giving listing presentations, attending closings, and I know what you go through every single day because I do too. I have a unique marketing system that has only been made possible because of my years of experience IN the industry, doing what others only talk about doing. What I have from INSIDE the industry will turn you into a top producer in a way that something from outside the industry never can. And, I have all the credentials to back it up.”
Now, which Craig is the winner?
The answer, as you might imagine is, they both are, and both have been doing it since the mid 1990’s. Both (last time I checked) have herds of happy customers who like them, buy their material, use their material, and get results. And, the most successful real estate agents are clients of….both!
So, the lesson is, you use what you have and you are perfectly positioned to do so in your niche, privately to your “herd” (customers and leads). Before I give you my opinion on that, let me give you another amusing example of using what you have.
Imagine a single, 43 year old man, 5’6” tall, balding, with a bad back, in shape, but 30 pounds of fat away from having six pack abs, a guy who doesn’t like to talk on the phone, is an admittedly sloppy dresser, is somewhat reclusive and stays in and works most Friday and Saturday nights. Now, ask yourself…is that guy qualified to teach men of any age how to attract women?
The answer is…of course *I* am! Yep, that description fits me to a T (it IS me), so my story is, “despite all these ‘attraction handicaps,’ I can teach you the skill of attraction, how to get women to approach you first for a date, no matter your looks, age or income.” I certainly have no credentials, and I’d say my Electrical Engineering degree is actually a “negative credential” for this market. Yet, I have thousands of customers and leads who tune in every day to hear what I have to say, buy my stuff and send me a lot of success stories, and I care not what others think. There is, probably, somewhere a “John Alanis is a short, fat, bald, loud mouthed loser” blog out there which does nothing but amuse me (and I hope they have an affiliate link to my products on it, a la The Salty Droid).
Here’s a recent photo of me to dispel any notions that I am a 6’3” lean, full head of hair, 35 year old ringer for Sean Connery:
http://womenapproachyou.com/images/j...world-2014.jpg
So, here’s your story: because you’re in your 50’s, you’ve been around MMA before the name MMA was even uttered. You’ve seen and done things all the 25 year old fanboys dream about back when they were a gleam in their mother’s eyes, and daddy’s little squirt. You’ve forgotten more about training than they will ever know, and despite your bad back, you could still whip three 25 year olds at once, because old age and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm every single time. But, if all the young ‘uns are good little boys, and prove to the Grumpy Old Man Of MMA they are worthy, you MIGHT let them in on a few secrets IF they are man enough to buy your trainings and use them.
Lookit, it’s a fun character you’re building here. And I’ll bet you have all kinds of hilarious stories spanning your decades in MMA to share with your list, and that’s really what this business is all about…stories. People don’t go to a Ron LeGrand real estate investing seminar for the content, although many people have made a ton of dough from Ron’s strategies. They come to hear him tell the story of how he sold a house 7 times (and wished it was 8) and the story about why he was happy when the kids set a mattress on fire in his section 8 housing and burned it to the ground, and so on. They’ve heard him tell the story 18 times, and they came to hear it again because they like “Uncle Ron” and his character (Ron is pushing 70 now, and I still don’t think he has a credential after his name).
I will close with this to drive the point home: you are, doubtless, familiar with the Most Interesting Man In The World Dos Equis commercials. And you might know they are a direct homage to David Ogilivy’s classic Man In The Hathaway Shirt (aka “The Baron”) character. But what you might not know is how Jonathan Goldsmith’s agent closed the deal with Dos Equis.
When he auditioned for the part, Dos Equis loved everything about him except one thing—his age. They said they were looking for someone younger, and were just about to tell him, “thanks but no thanks” when his agent uttered these words:
“How can The Most Interesting Man In The World be young?”
They signed him right then and there. So, there’s your character and there’s your answer to anyone who gripes about your age (they won’t)… “how can The Most Interesting Man In MMA be young?”
How indeed, my friends, how indeed…
-John
PS Oh, wait, resources. I did a presentation at Daegen Smith’s event last year in Baltimore (Lloyd couldn’t make it, so I didn’t get to see him there) about building an attractive character via email, and the slides are posted here for all STM members:
http://www.womenapproachyou.com/emai...ng-secrets.htm
PPS How do I know MMA guys respond to this type of character/marketing? Welllllll, I ran full page ads in Blackbelt, Inside Kung Fu, Grappling, and some start up MMA magazines from 2004 to 2009 (many of those readers gravitated towards MMA as it became more popular) so I still have a lot of them on my list and they still like me and give me money (and sometimes send me semi-disturbing shirtless pictures, although they mean well).
Originally Posted by radiosurf
Forum mods, PLEASE can you create an SMS alert for me for whenever johna5150 posts anything?
I don't care if he writes about what type of toast he had for breakfast this morning. I want to read it.
Really great posts, John ... you are really an outstanding, fresh new voice on STM
Given I want the very same SMS alert, I'll look into it
Also, bonus points for the choice of venue in the picture! I think we need an STM Food And Drink thread in the offtopic section...
Thanks so much for the insights and the pdf. A very good read, and I'll apply what I can. And yes, all the guys who've followed my Facebook MMA page can't seem to keep their shirts on, either.
Indeed, that would be a great thread...that photo was actually taken at Whiskies of the World here in Austin a few weeks ago, a fantastic event....any fine whisky drinkers on here, feel free to PM me, I collect the stuff and love talking about it. One time I actually had a guy bugging me to mail his offer for the 4th time (did good, but geez) so I told him if he'd bribe me with a bottle of George T. Stagg Bourbon (71.3% alcohol by volume) I'd mail for him again. He found a bottle, sent it to me, and I mailed for him...and I daresay I got the better end of that deal!
Originally Posted by caurmen
Also, bonus points for the choice of venue in the picture! I think we need an STM Food And Drink thread in the offtopic section...
@radiosurf
Haha, guys taking their shirts off online and posting photos is an epidemic…just ask any woman how bad it is, and watch her roll her eyes and say, “seriously?”
There is another interesting subject you brought up in a previous post, and that has to do with handling criticism. Strangely, it can actually be turned into money if handled and viewed correctly.
On one hand, immunity to criticism is a key entrepreneurial trait, and the saying “if you’re not pissing someone off by noon each day, you’re not making any money” is absolutely true. But beyond that, outside criticism is actually a great tool for bonding with your list, which has a very real effect on lifetime subscriber value.
Here’s why: IF you have a good product, and others have used it as intended and gotten results, you know the product works (and I presume yours does). So, if there’s whining about it, clearly it is not the product because others, when faced with the exact same set of circumstances, have taken action and gotten results. Therefore the issue is with the whiner, not the product, and that presents a golden opportunity for you.
One of the most powerful marketing strategies is creating an enemy to rail against, to gather your list to fight against for the common good. In some markets this is hard to find, but interestingly, you can always find one by looking hard enough (in the diet industry it is the food companies conspiring to keep you fat). And when you have whiners criticizing a product others have gotten results with, you now have your enemy.
Let me give you an example from my business. In the dating for men niche, it’s hard at first to see a common enemy. However, there actually IS an insidious one, and I call them “the girlie men in the media,” the whiners and crybabies who secretly know they are unattractive to women, so instead of being real men and learning the skill of attraction, they conspire to keep real men unattractive by perpetuating the “social lie” (i.e. be a nice guy, let her take the lead, be asexual, when you’re in "love", get married, and so on and so forth).
This is the perfect enemy for my market because it’s demonstrable—turn on the TV and you’ll see dull, stupid men being led around by the women in the show, Hollywood movies that present men as weak and lily livered (yet getting the girl at the end), etc. Well, every single one of my customers (and me at one point) has tried the “just be yourself, be a nice guy” approach, only to fail miserable, get safe hugs, pecks on the cheek and the dreaded LJBF (Let’s Just Be Friends).
So, that sets up the enemy for US to “fight against.” And to further define the enemy, I split the world into “talkers and doers,” with explicitly defined behavior for each. Talkers are girlie men who whine about being born into prosperity, listen to sniveling music, refuse to take responsibility for their actions, have an entitlement mentality, are mentally and physically weak, and…who criticize those who are successful, spend their time whining on social media, look for a handout/freeload and…refund! In other words, we set up behavior for list members in good standing to AVOID.
Then we give them behavior to live up to—“Doer Behavior.” Doers believe all their outcomes are their own fault, take full responsible for all their actions, care not what others think, see the world as it is, not as it should be, value education and are willing to invest their money to get information that can change their life, then act on that information. And, of course, doers do not waste their time whining on social media about how bad they feel today (because their boss gave them a mean look for being late), since doers are out living the life every talker secretly dreams about but is too chicken to actually live. Oh, and doers never, ever, under any circumstances refund because that’s a commitment to failure, and every product produces at least one good idea (true). So, in a nutshell, doers buy lots and lots and lots, use what they buy, and never, ever refund. This is good for our bottom line.
I layer this into all my relationship building emails, skewering the girlie men in the media, printing correspondence from my customers who agree and have stories of their own, printing success stories (which encourages more success stories, training the list to send in a story when they have one) and pointing out talker behavior in the media as it happens. The list LOVES it.
Now, here’s where criticism can make you money. On occasion, I get an email from a bitter, disgruntled man, constantly rejected by women, who accuses me of being a shyster, and a con man preying on the emotions of poor guys who are stupid enough to fall for my clever copy (yes, I actually get emails like this). I LOVE it when I do, because now I have a talker to feed to the list.
Perhaps it’s some weird form of Karma, but it seems an email like this is immediately followed by a detailed success story, from a guy who was a total loser with women, got my material, took action, now has a happy family, what he wanted in life, etc. Sooooo, I print both those letters in the same email episode, back to back saying, “see, here’s the difference between a talker and a doer, same product, different result (oh, and all my products come with a 100% money back guarantee, which makes it impossible to be a victim because, uh, if you don’t like the product, you can get your money back).
Then I just ask the list to send in “advice to the talker,” sit back and let the fun begin. My longterm subscribers always send in some hilarious stuff, so I just print them all the next day, and let the list full of “doers” eat the “talker” alive.
Yes, this is fun to do, but I’m in business purely to make money and there is a very real financial payoff to this—subscribers stay longer, they open more, they click more, and to prove they are doers they buy. And if they get results by USAGE of the products (doers use, talkers just look at it), they send in a success story, because that’s what doers do in our mutual struggle against the talkers and girlie men of the world.
Of course this is email, so it’s not nearly as effective as in person, and people come and go from my list, but there is no doubt this works….I still have guys who subscribed in 2004, who still buy things from me (both my product and affiliate products), certainly for their own self benefit, but also to live up to the title of “Doer” I bestowed upon them.
This opportunity exists in every list, and the concept of the enemy is very powerful. Certainly your “enemies” have self identified…boys (not men) who hide behind keyboards saying things they would never say in person when confronted by a real man, instead of going to the gym and training or actually fighting a real opponent with certainty of pain, both mental and physical. And whenever you get criticism from them, you can simply present it to your list as clear and present danger, and the way for them to combat this obvious danger is to buy something from you, then go use it to get results and make the enemy jealous (that’s how we define victory).
Certainly there is a lot of humor involved in this, and I make a caricature of the media (although not too far removed from reality), but if done right, it is very, very effective, turning a click you got today into a customer still buying from you years and years from now. So, criticism is actually a profit center, and a very fun one at that.
Originally Posted by radiosurf
Great stuff as always, john.
Ok John, you've got me going back to building my list, and I'll be using your posts as a guideline for creating my personna and keeping the list engaged. BTW, your pdf had some excellent strategies in it as well. I've got to hand it to you. I've studied concepts similar to some of what you're about, but I've rarely seen them fleshed out and put into use as you've done. It's a good template to follow.
@radiosurf
If you're close to break even on the front end with your $147.00 product, you can turn that into a front end winner with a robust one click upsell chain...about 20% of my Secrets of Natural Attraction Buyers (price ranges from 2 payments of $39.97 to 2 payments of $99.97) take the initial $197 upsell, which makes a big difference in how quickly you can offset the lead. Here's my 1 click upsell sequence, for all to see:
http://www.johnalanis.com/1clicks.htm
Something else interesting worth testing on your offer is presenting it at "two payments of $147" instead of "$147.00." While it doesn't happen in every case, often times people just see the price and not the payments, and your conversion rate stays the same, while you're close to doubling your net (some people won't charge out for the second payment, of course, but most will). It is definitely worth testing, and can make a huge difference in how quickly you can build an email list because you have that much more money to reinvest.
Note: I shot these videos way back in 2009 with a crappy camcorder, and they work just as good today as they did back then...still got the shirt, too!
Originally Posted by radiosurf
@john5150
Thanks for sharing your upsell sequence. I had studied Singal's "Launch Tree" quite some time ago, and it's nice to see how you've implemented uspell sequences into your funnel.
Yes, I'm well beyond break-even with that front-end product. I may test the "two payments of $147" on my regular sales page. Currently, my biggest success is coming from ads on Facebook to a landing page offering a $1 14-day trial, followed by 3 payments of $47 (what I started this thread about!) The low barrier to entry seems to be doing the trick, and refunds are low.
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't have one-click upsells in place for that product... I use 1Shoppingcart integrated with Wishlist Member, and the customer is sent to a Wishlist Member page to create a user-name & password after checkout. I can't remember the details now, but the upsell sequence somehow prevented the customer from being redirected to the password creation page. Gotta figure a way around that... maybe switch over to infusion & use Ryan Chapman's script.
I also had a bit of a hard time coming up with an appropriate upsell... the jump to the $600 physical product that I sell seemed too much (particularly on the $1 14-day trial offer) and offering someone else's video tutorial set just after selling them on my product's "comprehensiveness" seemed like a bad idea... if mine's so good, why do they need this other one? I'm sure there's an angle, just haven't figured it out yet.
Lot's of opportunities, particularly with this $1 offer going well. Just got to figure them out them out & get it all implemented.
@radiosurf
Yah, I’d definitely figure a way around that one on 1ShoppingCart, even if you’re just emailing the password creation page to the customer or using some other kind of work around.
1click upsells are the easiest money you’ll ever make because it’s the only time you can make money on product sales without actually selling. The customer has already made the decision to buy, so in that tiny instant, they like and trust you and feel good, and adding on something feels like the right thing to do. Interestingly, price is very elastic in this situation, and you can often get people to add on high priced items. When Michael Kimble and I worked together, we (along with Dan Kennedy, to give full credit to all involved) came up with the idea of “the expensive upsell.” We simply added one short paragraph to the end of a sales letter about a complementary product, then put an option with a checkbox by it on the print order form (for a $1997 product) and sent it out. The product was never mentioned in the letter itself, it was a mere after thought, a “Kojak,” oh-by-the-way, if you will.
The results were remarkable—12% of the people took the upsell, and when we got the order forms back (mailed and faxed int), you could see most of them got excited, checked every box on the order form and sent it in. Refunds were low too, and net revenue went through the roof. Expensive upsells really are quite extraordinary and very simple to implement since you don’t have to write a full pitch.
You’re quite right, of course, about not wanting to present an upsell that says to the customer, “oh, hey, I know the product I just sold you was supposed to have everything in it, but, uh, it actually doesn’t, so buy this one so you’ll get it all.” I’ve seen that done, and it’s a good way to piss a good customer off.
The best way I’ve found to do it is to offer someone something that gets them faster results with what they just bought. A perfect example would be Dave Miz’s (dkonstruct, he’s on this forum) Insider Internet Dating product with his new “Software That Emails Women For You” as an immediate, 1 click upsell (are you listening, Dave?). So, the product tells you how to do it, and the optional software does it faster for you, but is not necessary for success, merely “nice to have.” You can also reverse the offers, selling the software first, then the “science behind the magic” product next, getting different segments of your list to buy the front end product, then take the upsell.
So, it may take some brainstorming on your part, but something that gets them results faster with what they just bought is always a good angle, and appreciated. The upsell can be something as simple as “interviews with guys who succeeded with what you just bought” giving them a different perspective, etc. Also, emailing your list, telling them you’re “going in the shop to create more product” and asking for their advice can lead to fantastic ideas too. And, the best thing about the upsell is you don’t have to write a full blown pitch, you just have to ask them to add it on to what they just bought.
Originally Posted by radiosurf
Thanks again for the advice, John. The "faster results" is a good angle to work an upsell around. Sounds like you've got tons of experience with this.
@johna5150
Hey John, do you know of a way to integrate 1-click upsells with affiliate offers, or can you recommend a smooth workaround for when we don't actually own the product?
Holy shit, just found this post. AMAZING.
I do know on Clickbank that you can use other offers as upsells for a product you own up there (To claim both blatant credit and confess monumental stupidity, I gave them that idea a few years ago and did not request a cut on each sale they got from it....to my surprise they actually implemented it), so if you're running on Clickbank that is a solution there. For other affiliate offers, that's a tougher one...I'll have to think on it...
Originally Posted by radiosurf
Thanks, John. I just did some research on Clickbank, and it appears that you can only upsell your products with other of your own products.
In my niche, there will be a mix of both physical and digital products that will be used as upsells. Just trying to find a way to string them together without requiring multiple CC entries... may not be possible, but sure would be nice if that solution existed!
Arriving a bit late to this party but have to agree that John5150's posts are gold dust
I'm new to the Aff. M, game but intend to use it as a way to train myself ahead of a product launch - prob. Legal "E: Learning - but John's posts have lots of generic product advice in them so very useful
Would anybody out there have any thoughts re; unexploited or hot niches for either "E" or Physical Products??
Many thanks
Originally Posted by johna5150
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