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Affiliate Manager from recommended Network advised me to steer clear of Mobile? (26)

08-24-2014 01:17 PM #1 rawklix (Member)
Affiliate Manager from recommended Network advised me to steer clear of Mobile?

Hi guys,

Every time I've looked to progress in affiliate marketing I have come head to head with Facebook. I didn't diversify when I had the chance and don't have the knowledge of cloaking, buying accounts, and consequently the data to pour money into chasing blackhat leads. The real opportunity cost hasn't been cash as much as knowledge - the vast majority of my energy was spent on trying to deal with FB rather than split-testing, branching out with offers etc.

After reading through the forum - there is clear optimism surrounding Mobile. Here it seemed, was an opportunity to familiarise myself with a traffic source which is still relatively new, rather than choking on the fumes of traffic stretching 14 miles ahead.

So, first port of call, I read Caurmen's excellent Recipe guide. I have followed all of the steps and I arrive at asking my AM for the best mobile offers. The intention was to launch a Follow-Along-Guide as this seems like the way to keep motivated and tapped into the mainline.

Buzzkill.

My AM recommended steering clear of Mobile as a beginner. That it was abuzz months ago with Battery Cleaners etc but that iTunes and Google have since changed the rules. He mentioned that there are veteran affiliates who spend $5000 - $10,000, 10-20 campaigns before finding a winner.

As you can imagine, this was pretty disheartening. More than anything, I want to learn right now and I understand the emphasis on dominating a traffic source. At the same time if the barriers to entry are in fact that high, I'm not sure that it is viable for me.

My first thought was to come back to STM and see if others have a different opinion.

So what do you guys think? Is there any room for a beginner entering Mobile?

08-24-2014 01:22 PM #2 cmdeal (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by rawklix View Post
Hi guys,

Every time I've looked to progress in affiliate marketing I have come head to head with Facebook. I didn't diversify when I had the chance and don't have the knowledge of cloaking, buying accounts, and consequently the data to pour money into chasing blackhat leads. The real opportunity cost hasn't been cash as much as knowledge - the vast majority of my energy was spent on trying to deal with FB rather than split-testing, branching out with offers etc.

After reading through the forum - there is clear optimism surrounding Mobile. Here it seemed, was an opportunity to familiarise myself with a traffic source which is still relatively new, rather than choking on the fumes of traffic stretching 14 miles ahead.

So, first port of call, I read Caurmen's excellent Recipe guide. I have followed all of the steps and I arrive at asking my AM for the best mobile offers. The intention was to launch a Follow-Along-Guide as this seems like the way to keep motivated and tapped into the mainline.

Buzzkill.

My AM recommended steering clear of Mobile as a beginner. That it was abuzz months ago with Battery Cleaners etc but that iTunes and Google have since changed the rules. He mentioned that there are veteran affiliates who spend $5000 - $10,000, 10-20 campaigns before finding a winner.

As you can imagine, this was pretty disheartening. More than anything, I want to learn right now and I understand the emphasis on dominating a traffic source. At the same time if the barriers to entry are in fact that high, I'm not sure that it is viable for me.

My first thought was to come back to STM and see if others have a different opinion.

So what do you guys think? Is there any room for a beginner entering Mobile?
When you are looking for media channels to enter, two of the (many) factors that you will want to consider are:

1. Is this a large traffic channel?
2. Is this a growing traffic channel?

On both these dimensions, mobile gets a huge tick.

This is still a young traffic channel, so even the "experts" in this channel will only have about an 18 month lead time against a beginner. If I were starting out, mobile would be near the top of my list of traffic channels to figure out.

08-24-2014 01:31 PM #3 iAmAttila (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by rawklix View Post
Hi guys,

Every time I've looked to progress in affiliate marketing I have come head to head with Facebook. I didn't diversify when I had the chance and don't have the knowledge of cloaking, buying accounts, and consequently the data to pour money into chasing blackhat leads. The real opportunity cost hasn't been cash as much as knowledge - the vast majority of my energy was spent on trying to deal with FB rather than split-testing, branching out with offers etc.

After reading through the forum - there is clear optimism surrounding Mobile. Here it seemed, was an opportunity to familiarise myself with a traffic source which is still relatively new, rather than choking on the fumes of traffic stretching 14 miles ahead.

So, first port of call, I read Caurmen's excellent Recipe guide. I have followed all of the steps and I arrive at asking my AM for the best mobile offers. The intention was to launch a Follow-Along-Guide as this seems like the way to keep motivated and tapped into the mainline.

Buzzkill.

My AM recommended steering clear of Mobile as a beginner. That it was abuzz months ago with Battery Cleaners etc but that iTunes and Google have since changed the rules. He mentioned that there are veteran affiliates who spend $5000 - $10,000, 10-20 campaigns before finding a winner.

As you can imagine, this was pretty disheartening. More than anything, I want to learn right now and I understand the emphasis on dominating a traffic source. At the same time if the barriers to entry are in fact that high, I'm not sure that it is viable for me.

My first thought was to come back to STM and see if others have a different opinion.

So what do you guys think? Is there any room for a beginner entering Mobile?
Mobile is hard as hell, but if you can overcome challenges - it still is the best growing part of media buys.

08-24-2014 01:35 PM #4 rawklix (Member)

Thanks for the reply cmdeal.

I imagine though that one of the other main factors you would consider, were you a beginner - would be barriers to entry?

In that sense the AM has suggested that testing budget is a massive barrier to entry. If an experienced affiliate with a wealth of experience is burning $10,000 before a return, that is troubling for a beginner.

Of all the traffic sources touted, I do find mobile the most appealing in terms of learning. But of course I also want the potential of a return during the course of that learning.

The Cookbook by Caurmen certainly suggests that this is the case - I am just wondering if there has been some development since this guide was released that has made it less viable for beginners.

As I say the AM shot it down quickly. The recommendation was to start out in Adult but then I feel like I am in another difficult situation, still a beginner - but now dealing with competition, still with far more knowledge but also completely in their element in terms of the source itself.

08-24-2014 02:28 PM #5 Mr Green (Administrator)

I'm curious what your AM recommended to you instead of mobile?

"He mentioned that there are veteran affiliates who spend $5000 - $10,000, 10-20 campaigns before finding a winner." That is ridiculous. They are not paying attention to their data, and not testing effectively. Just remember there is a difference between veteran affiliates and successful affiliates. If you follow Caurmen's guide and focus your efforts on learning how to test effectively and efficiently there is no way you would be $10,000 in the red without a winner.

Every traffic source has it's pros and cons. I could give you reasons to stay away from single every traffic source.

In the end you need you need to make your own call.

Does mobile require work? Yes.
Are affiliates profitable on mobile? Yes.
Is it scalable? Yes
Is there an abundance of offers to monetize mobile traffic with? Yes.

Go mobile.

08-24-2014 02:30 PM #6 sciaq (Member)

Putting way to much weight on one AM's opinion, you defiantly can find winning campaigns well under a $5k loss, just be smart and play with smaller payouts / easier geo's. Big affiliates like to throw money at things to see what sticks, you don't have to use that strategy.

08-24-2014 03:00 PM #7 rawklix (Member)

Dr Ngo was the affiliate cited regarding that spend.

Mr Green, Adult was suggested as a viable option, as well as Facebook coupons, although he made clear that this might get me banned.

08-25-2014 11:55 AM #8 caurmen (Administrator)

I completely agree with all of the above, obviously.

One thing to note with mobile is that you will need a larger budget, though. $10k is seriously on the high side, but a budget of more than $3k to learn with before you expect to see profit would be sensible. You can do it on less, but it gets progressively harder - if you have $1.5k or less (total, not per campaign) I'd recommend a different traffic source.

Adult is doable as a newbie, but you have to be very smart about it and look for blue ocean rather than going for the competitive sources. Particularly in the main sub-verticals and on the major sites you'll just get killed. I wouldn't say it's much easier than mobile, although if you niche down hard it can be cheaper.

Churn-and-burn Facebook is definitely NOT an option for new affiliates. Whitehat Facebook can be.

POF is another option, although you'll never achieve huge scale there.

But honestly, if you have the budget available - go for mobile. It's growing fast, there's plenty of cheap inventory, and there's potential for ridiculously huge volume.

08-25-2014 12:04 PM #9 matuloo (Legendary Moderator)

I don't like when someone uses the word "mobile" in a way like this : "mobile is not for beginners..." But mobile what? Mobile traffic arbitrage, mobile app installs, mobile pin submits or simple lead generation on mobile version of web offers? In many ways mobile is just the same as web, just on smaller devices with some limitations. On the other hand there are also advantages, you cant really bill a web user with an sms, can you? Same goes for adult, so he suggested you to try adult, but adult what? Dating, hookup advice products, paid sites or maybe even mobile adult dating? Anything can be profitable if you find the right traffic sources. In my short traffic buyers career, I tried both adult dating and app installs, I dont really find one more complicated over the other. Adult is way better in terms of what you can do with your creatives, unless you broke a very few vague rules you can run freely. In app installs, especially with adwords, you are about to face an army of "banner-rejecters" that show no consistency or logic at all. Can you make money in both? Sure, I do it, thou Im not a big baller at all. If I had to start again I would do it just the same way as I did the first time, I started with adult, then added app installs and now do both. Adult is good for the start simply because there are less rules, so you have more space to learn the ropes so to speak. And if you're lucky, you can make your first $ with a ripped banner and LP. If I started with adwords and app isntalls I would probably call it quits after the 100th rejected banner

08-25-2014 06:33 PM #10 dr_ngo ()

Quote Originally Posted by rawklix View Post
Dr Ngo was the affiliate cited regarding that spend.

Mr Green, Adult was suggested as a viable option, as well as Facebook coupons, although he made clear that this might get me banned.
Can you message me where I mentioned that? It doesn't sound familiar.

08-25-2014 06:52 PM #11 lavamyz (Member)

How much do you want to earn and how much budget do you have Rawklix?

Knowing these numbers will help

08-25-2014 07:12 PM #12 doppelganger (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by rawklix View Post
the vast majority of my energy was spent on trying to deal with FB rather than split-testing, branching out with offers etc.
This is exactly where I was at the beginning of this year. I was successful with FB and was able to make some nice money when I was up and running. But, the amount of time I spent farming accounts and managing my cloaker was insane! This didn't leave much time to test new things and really grow as an affiliate. Plus, I was spending all this time on a business model that really had no future. Not to mention the stress of waking up every morning wondering if any of my accounts had been banned was a killer. I was living with the constant stress of knowing my entire business could come crashing down at any minute.

When I got back from ASW this year, I shut down all my FB campaigns and dove head first into mobile. It's taken some work and there are plenty of different aspects to consider when it comes to mobile but, I have not regretted my decision one bit.

I did not have a huge budget to blow on testing and I don't think you should let this stop you from trying something you want to do. You just need to be smart about how you spend your money. If you can't spend thousands on testing an offer then don't go after the pin submit with a $20 payout. There are lots of low payout offers that you can work with. My first successful mobile campaign was for an offer with a payout that was less than $0.50/lead. You don't need to spend $5k to figure out if an offer like that has potential.

When I read your post it struck me as odd that your AM would steer you away from mobile. Is this a network that is not very strong in mobile? Are they trying to keep in a vertical that they have more offers for?

If this is what you want to do then I say go for it!

-Aaron

08-25-2014 07:40 PM #13 keepthecar (Member)

But mobile what? Mobile traffic arbitrage, mobile app installs, mobile pin submits or simple lead generation on mobile version of web offers? In many ways mobile is just the same as web, just on smaller devices with some limitations.
Exactly what I was thinking

On the other hand there are also advantages, you cant really bill a web user with an sms, can you?
Ehhh yes you can. Ask the user to enter his number + a PIN code on a desktop. Desktop traffic used to be way bigger for carrier billed advertisers but is being passed by Mobile now

08-26-2014 07:02 AM #14 splitter8 (Member)

@cmdeal, I agree mobile is growing, it's not going to be easy, there's a somewhat dated Mobile Manifesto written by the IMGrind folks, the stats in are mindblowing.

08-26-2014 09:24 AM #15 maynzie (Moderator)

Steer clear of mobile? stir crazy brah who evers on the other end there haha.

Mobile demographics are growing insane fast, endless offers, endless angles, great tracking/reporting tools available now (I still remember Angry Russians prosper tags for jumptap haha), more and more traffic sources.

Low payout offers give you data insanely fast, use the numbers to your advantage they don't lie. The biggest thing of all, Mobile works plain and simple, I can attest that, I can vouch for many many people making $50/day to $25k/day. Big or small, mobile works.

In the end you need you need to make your own call.

Does mobile require work? Yes.
Are affiliates profitable on mobile? Yes.
Is it scalable? Yes
Is there an abundance of offers to monetize mobile traffic with? Yes.

Go mobile.
Yes

08-26-2014 10:51 AM #16 matuloo (Legendary Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by keepthecar View Post
Ehhh yes you can. Ask the user to enter his number + a PIN code on a desktop. Desktop traffic used to be way bigger for carrier billed advertisers but is being passed by Mobile now
Right, I know its possible to do it this way, but that always results in poor conversions, at least thats what I saw when I tried the pin submit offers.

08-26-2014 11:00 AM #17 cmdeal (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by splitter8 View Post
@cmdeal, I agree mobile is growing, it's not going to be easy, there's a somewhat dated Mobile Manifesto written by the IMGrind folks, the stats in are mindblowing.
Yes, but there is no traffic source that is "easy." All traffic sources are "hard".

The question here is, do you want to fly slowly against headwind, or fly even faster with tailwind.

In the US, there was a very famous bank robber named William "Willie" Sutton, aka "Slick Willie". During his "career" he stole several millions of dollars, spent more than half of his adult life in prison and escaped three times.



When someone asked him why he robbed banks, Slick Willie said

"Because that's where the money is."

With traffic sources, you need to go where the audiences are.

08-26-2014 10:15 PM #18 rawklix (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by dr_ngo View Post
Can you message me where I mentioned that? It doesn't sound familiar.
Hi dr_ngo. I re-read the message. The AM said some of his experienced affiliates had spent $5k up to $10k on mobile and still hadn't found a winner. In the next sentence you were cited as having worked through 10-20 campaigns before finding a winner. Apologies, this was my mistake. You were cited regarding campaign numbers rather than spend and from what I understand, 10-20 campaigns wouldn't be uncommon.

Quote Originally Posted by lavamyz View Post
How much do you want to earn and how much budget do you have Rawklix? Knowing these numbers will help
Hi Lavamyz, I'm ambitious but not naive. At this point as a beginner in uncharted territory, just getting some traction on a campaign and bringing it to profit is my aim.

In terms of an initial budget, I have $3-$3.5k in mind. I could 'afford' to lose that much, more even, but any appetite beyond that would depend on how I felt I was progressing. As a caveat, optimism would lead me to hope that I would not lose everything invested, as Caurmen's approach advocates dumping non-performing banners/offers etc with relatively small spends. However I have steeled myself to that potential outcome.

With that in mind, would you see that as a reasonable budget for a raw beginner entering mobile? I emphasise 'raw' because as I mentioned earlier, my experience marketing with Facebook proved far from a fertile ground in terms of developing the fundamentals.

Quote Originally Posted by doppelganger View Post
This is exactly where I was at the beginning of this year. I was successful with FB and was able to make some nice money when I was up and running. But, the amount of time I spent farming accounts and managing my cloaker was insane! This didn't leave much time to test new things and really grow as an affiliate. Plus, I was spending all this time on a business model that really had no future. Not to mention the stress of waking up every morning wondering if any of my accounts had been banned was a killer. I was living with the constant stress of knowing my entire business could come crashing down at any minute.

When I got back from ASW this year, I shut down all my FB campaigns and dove head first into mobile. It's taken some work and there are plenty of different aspects to consider when it comes to mobile but, I have not regretted my decision one bit.

I did not have a huge budget to blow on testing and I don't think you should let this stop you from trying something you want to do. You just need to be smart about how you spend your money. If you can't spend thousands on testing an offer then don't go after the pin submit with a $20 payout. There are lots of low payout offers that you can work with. My first successful mobile campaign was for an offer with a payout that was less than $0.50/lead. You don't need to spend $5k to figure out if an offer like that has potential.

When I read your post it struck me as odd that your AM would steer you away from mobile. Is this a network that is not very strong in mobile? Are they trying to keep in a vertical that they have more offers for?

If this is what you want to do then I say go for it!

-Aaron
Thanks for your input Aaron, appreciate it. I think you are right in terms of the Network/Offers. The AM was upfront and acknowledged that they had very few mobile offers in comparison to other areas.

Quote Originally Posted by splitter8 View Post
@cmdeal, I agree mobile is growing, it's not going to be easy, there's a somewhat dated Mobile Manifesto written by the IMGrind folks, the stats in are mindblowing.
Cheers for the Manifesto splitter8- the sheer amount of information in there staggering. I have saved this and will be referring to it again. Can I ask why you feel it is dated? The statistics or the methodology?

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

I work long days during the week but will be carving out any time I can to focus. My aim now is getting the board ready (additional networks, scouting offers, basic coding) in preparation for a follow-along.

08-27-2014 03:56 PM #19 lavamyz (Member)

My experience is pof rather than mobile but I would say your budget is ok. Mindset is important though - think "buying data" as opposed to "losing money"

08-31-2014 02:30 AM #20 splitter8 (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by rawklix View Post
Cheers for the Manifesto splitter8- the sheer amount of information in there staggering. I have saved this and will be referring to it again. Can I ask why you feel it is dated? The statistics or the methodology?
The stats are dated, they predict mobile traffic will exceed desktop traffic, this is now true. Methodology is good.
I too work full time outside AM.

08-31-2014 09:57 AM #21 caurmen (Administrator)

You'll be fine with that budget - I'd say go, go, go!

The Mobile Manifesto has some good ideas in it, although it's rather heavily biased toward the business model of the guys who wrote it (who have a vested interest in funneling affiliates to their tools). I'd say it's a bit out of date in some ways, but worth reading through.

08-31-2014 10:19 AM #22 rawklix (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by caurmen View Post
You'll be fine with that budget - I'd say go, go, go!

The Mobile Manifesto has some good ideas in it, although it's rather heavily biased toward the business model of the guys who wrote it (who have a vested interest in funneling affiliates to their tools). I'd say it's a bit out of date in some ways, but worth reading through.
Cheers Caurmen.

I have applied for a broad range of additional networks and added the contacts on Skype in an effort to speed up the process. I understand that it is important to run an offer across a range of networks if possible. I have a couple of questions if that's ok.

1. Why do conversion rates differ across networks? Offer pages/loading speeds etc? It seems peculiar that conversion rates on an identical offer would vary so widely. Also I can imagine the frustration of finding a profitable offer, only to find that you cannot achieve volume and other networks do not have similar offers. I have used Odigger and Offervault in the past.

2. In terms of hosting, would you recommend choosing a provider that is literally located in/around the country you are looking to explore? I ask because I have read a lot about the importance of loading times on mobile and that makes sense. However, I am not sure if switching providers on a constant basis would be overkill/offset any advantage.

3. With a flurry of marketers joining the aff network/traffic source from the Cookbook, (potentially naive) logic would suggest that this means increased competition/prices. Is this sound reasoning?

I'm off to get a mouse for the Mac- creating banners using the touchpad is enough to make me want to hit the JD.

08-31-2014 11:05 AM #23 caurmen (Administrator)

1) This is the eternal question! It can be everything from different network relationships with advertisers to where their servers are located. The key thing to realise is that the CVRs do differ wildly between networks.
2) Yes, definitely. 100ms can make a noticable difference on mobile - do everything you can to optimise, particularly if you have skills in that area.
3) Yep, I'm afraid so. However, that doesn't mean you can't make profits using it - we've had new members hit profitability with these techniques in the last week or so!

08-31-2014 11:11 AM #24 maynzie (Moderator)

1. Yeah when split testing offers between networks, the main thing you should be looking at is the revenue. Some networks shave clicks, to make their epcs look higher etc, but like caurmen laid down the tech aspects of it there are a few tricks to the eye as well so keep an eye on revenue as that is the number 1 thing, the amount you're getting paid!

2. Caurmens the man

3. But there is plenty of traffic, and so many many many offers to pick from. There is millions upon millions of untapped mobile profits, find your little snippet the rest of the competition shouldn't bother you

I'm off to get a mouse for the Mac- creating banners using the touchpad is enough to make me want to hit the JD.
Haha mouse all day erryday!

08-31-2014 03:40 PM #25 h0mp (Member)

My AM recommended steering clear of Mobile as a beginner. That it was abuzz months ago with Battery Cleaners etc but that iTunes and Google have since changed the rules.
Sounds to me that your AM started his job in 2014 or the network started with mobile offers just recently.

Mobile wasn't a buzz months ago with battery savers That was just a huge influx of mobile n00bs piling on a proven vertical. Much like a gold rush.
In my mind, the battery saver buzz was from beginning 2012.

For me, the real mobile buzz was before that and were the true 1-click flows where a user best removed the battery of his phone to try and avoid being subscribed.
I see some "1-click" offers popping up now and then. Even the AM's believe they are 1-click while it's actually prohibited by law in given country.

Anyway, just like the others said.. go for mobile. If you have 2 fishing ponds and one contains 1000 fish while the other contains 100.. which one would you choose?

Besides, mobile is getting easier and easier with the ad networks offering all these targeting options, mobile trackers, fast internet connections, smart phones, apps, etc.

3 years ago, you were lucky to get 1 out of 5 e-mail submits without a typo of some sort with those crap key pads, mini screens and all kind of lame things like no JS support and what not.

08-31-2014 03:43 PM #26 stackman (Administrator)

I really need to sum everything up here.. with saying there's NO right or wrong when it comes to types of traffic.

Some people make big $ in mobile, and other make big $ with Facebook.. there's a bunch more too.

It's where you feel comfortable starting and only way you'll know is if you start running traffic and testing an area for a few weeks. If you feel potential there stay, otherwise move to another type of traffic. Just don't jump around too much.

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