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Pay Per Call Advertiser Shenanigans (23)

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Hey guys, I am doing a lot of Pay Per Call campaigns right now and want to give you a heads up on how I discovered an advertiser was pulling shenanigans (I guess fraud goes both ways) and want to pose a question to the guys running reputable Pay Per Call networks.

But first, here is what happened to me. I am running a campaign with a high payout offer and was looking at a few different networks that also have a similar offer. I came across one that paid 30% higher than others (red flag #1) but proceeded with caution, got approved and started with the "test call." On the test call, there were two options (press 1 or press 2), of which the advertiser only wanted those that pressed 1. When you press 2, the call gets automatically disconnected (red flag #2). Even if the call doesn't fit the advertisers need, they should at least have a better 'out' than disconnecting the call, which leaves for a bad user experience.

So, I made another test call and pressed option 1. It rang 6-7 times (red flag #3) and then disconnected (red flag #4). If I am sending calls, I expect that after the user jumps through the IVR hoops, that someone is ready and able to take the phone call (side note: the available call hours on the offer are 24/7) and it was 3pm PST - Los Angeles time). When the call disconnected, I was even more surprised, but what happened next was worse.....I immediately received a phone call back from a woman in Tennessee asking if I needed assistance with the offer I called about (red flag #5). I politely told her I was an AM and was testing the call and wondered why my call went unanswered. She made up some BS story and I said "no problem, it was nice talking with you."

Next, I had my buddy call about 15 minutes later and he pressed option 1, got connected with a lady and started telling her he was interested in their product, when 30 seconds into the call, guess what...the line disconnects and 5 seconds after the call disconnect, a woman from a Tennessee phone number (same one that called me back) calls him back and said "I guess we got disconnected, now let's talk about what you need...." (SHENANIGAN ALERT!).

I immediately notified my network AM and within a few hours, the offer was suspended due to "the advertisers request." Needless to say, that is another reason why you should test the calls and go through the IVR process completely, so you understand how the advertiser structures their IVR.

Now, my question to those running respectable Pay Per Call networks, is "Why there isn't a capability to record all calls, at least up until the call converts?" That seems to be a great way to eliminate fraud (on both sides) and will help the publisher better tailor his/her ads and campaigns after hearing what types of callers are responding to their ads and how best to target users, based on successful call conversions.

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Since you're not running that offer, why not say what it was so other affiliates don't waste time with it if they come across it on other pay per call networks?

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I'm a pay-per-call newb so can you spell out the issue explicitly?

From what I understand, besides the stupidity and poor service, by disconnecting calls they will make it so your calls/leads don't pass a time threshold = you don't get paid for them?

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Yes, this is a VERY shady way for the advertiser to operate.

Good on the OP for testing the offer himself before spending too much money on it.

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Sounds like something theyd do in serbia lol

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They are basically calling back the leads. Disconnect them early before the call qualifies then call back the customer on a different number bypassing the affiliate commission.

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Holy crap, had no idea this type of BS happens. Good for you for testing it out! This likely isnt a common occurance which is why networks dont have recording features etc... yet

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I'm just about to launch some pay per call. Thanks for the heads up!

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You should always test your offers and conversions yourself before spending money on campaigns. OP was really smart here ...

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Correct. Essentially, they are taking the lead without paying for it. I pointed out some of the other red flags, because they should all be considered. Any reputable firm will have an option for the "non-desirable leads" as it makes for a better user experience and in some cases, they have found a way to monetize all the phone traffic by diverting to different offers. It is the same fundamentals as with web-based traffic.

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The offer doesn't matter, as this can happen with any offer/network/advertiser. The point of my post was go through the red flags and how to test each offer for a shady advertiser or network (as I like to call it, "shenanigans") prior to spending time and money optimizing.

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Thanks for bringing this up. Unfortunately, this does happen.

We have to work very closely with the Advertisers to ensure they aren't hanging up and calling back, to avoid paying for a call.

Pay per call has it's challenges and it's important to the network and the publisher that the advertiser answers the phone, to ensure strong conversion rates and earnings.

Affiliate Marketers aren't generally used to this, having consumers connect directly with the advertiser, via a phone call which requires a live sales agent on the phone.

So, it's definitely very important that you test your campaign, use the test call feature. And, discuss with your rep at the network, prior to starting.

Advertisers like this won't last long with reputable networks.

There is a capability to listen to calls, however many advertisers don't want this passed on to publishers, because of potential legal issues.

Hopefully this helps. Feel free to DM me with the name of the advertiser

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It may or may not be a usual occurrence, but in terms of transparency and better tracking for both sides, recording the first few minutes of each phone call is a no-brainer.

Here is another reason why: a Pay Per Call conversion is typically generated after a user goes through a series of prompts or IVR (Interactive voice response ) which filters the calls into different pre-determined "buckets" setup by the advertiser. IMPORTANT: The affiliate gets paid on "connect" duration, which is the length of time a caller spends on the phone with a live person AFTER they go through the IVR process. So, if you have an offer where the user is required to go through a series of prompts (press 1 if you need a dentist in your area, press 1 if you prefer a dentist that speaks English, etc) that take 20-45 seconds BEFORE they reach a live operator, you have a higher likelihood of losing that user and more importantly, your conversion tracking will be off, because you are probably tracking "total" duration of call (if using Google phone forwarding) and not "connect" duration (actual time that user is talking with a live person).

IMO, the best way to setup PPCall for everyone involved (advertiser/network/affiliate), would be to track the IVR prompt selection for each call, along with total AND "connect" duration, and recording first few minutes of the "live operator" conversation. That shouldn't be too hard to setup, but may perhaps one of the PPCall network buys can add their two cents here.

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I agree, having the recording would be a nice feature. But, it wouldn't be available for all campaigns. The advertiser decides if the publisher or network gets to hear the calls and certain states and verticals simply cannot allow it.

Most networks do set up the campaigns to convert on a 'connect duration' and you will have to factor in the time in the IVR duration for your Google tracking purposes. It's certainly not a perfect tracking solution.

Unfortunately, some of the tracking limitations are from the tracking platforms. New tracking details will come in time. You can see keypresses within your reporting, you may need to enable the view.

There are some additional tracking features that are coming, Invoca's Signal product and LogMyCalls can indicate when certain keywords are spoken within the conversation, like buy, purchase, credit card, etc. Which should give deeper insight into the quality of a call.

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It just makes no sense to track "total duration" when all networks pay on "connect duration." Does Invoca platform not give networks the ability to do so? Thanks for the info on the key press reporting!

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I am new to this board but I do have an offer that offers full tracking and accountability with both recordings and ivr tracking .

Let's talk more about this there are a lot of scammers out there

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When you're tracking in Google they have their own separate reporting, it starts tracking when the call starts. Depending on the campaign, this may include an IVR and keypresses, before connecting to the campaign and starting the connect duration tracking in Invoca.

I like the idea of being able to choose when to start the tracking, but for now it's an issue between the two tracking systems - Google and Invoca.

You could add some extra time to your conversion duration in Google, but it's not a perfect solution.

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Me too. I'm thinking Invoca may need to figure it out, as it may fall low on Googles priority list.

I've done that and it's still just a guess...but at the end of the day, all I care about is "connect time" so I hope Invoca can add it to their platform.

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It's a great suggestion, I'll be sure to mention it to Invoca. They have a lot on their "to do" list, but this is a great feature for publishers.

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The question is how prevalent is this, and how can you go around this issue.

I would think routing/spoofing the numbers, so that any inbound calls are sent to you to see which advertisers are shady.

On the other hand, you can record calls, and listen to them all (although a huge privacy issue).

I believe this can go as far as the advertiser hanging up within the first 5 seconds, and calling the number back.

That's why you should run with networks like Ringpartner, because they weed out all the crap early on.

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Most of these advertisers get caught pretty early on, especially when their conversion rates don't match up to what we expect. Listening to the calls definitely helps, when possible.

We're very upfront with new advertisers about this and we watch their stats very closely.

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I just started dabbling in PayPerCall, what is Google Tracking? I couldn't find anything on it. What's the benefit of using call tracking?

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Great to hear!

Check out this video on Google Adwords and tracking:


Also, check out Google's new on page call tracking here - http://adwords.blogspot.ca/2014/08/i...nversions.html

Most search publishers are using call extensions, NOT tracking on their site. But, this is something new from Adwords.

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