So I've done maybe 20 or so PPV campaigns on LI with only one profitable campaign which was a email submit with a 5% ROI. In the hole about $300.00. It's getting particularly frustrating and I need some advice on what I'm doing wrong, or where I can improve.
First, here's some more info on where I'm at:
- CPVLab, tracking is all working well, hosted on a VPS where I get fast pageload times. (getting this all setup probably cut my learning curve in half)
- I design all my landers in photoshop and then chop them up for dreamweaver. I've use geoscripts whenever applicable and also have tried sound clips, auto playing video.
- I am primarily working with Peerfly submits and choose from the pool of the best CR. I am applying to more networks in an attempt to find more offers to rotate.
Some of the things I'm worried about:
- I do have about 20-30% loss of clicks reported by LI to my tracking. I assume this is due to people closing the pop-up before it loads. The problem is that I calculate my effective CPV at .018. I'm concerned that this is too expensive, especially for low paying submits. When i read a lot of successful case studies I see reported CPV of .010 from the old days, im worried that competition has simply gotten too high.
- PPV spying: I have installed toolbars and such and browsed the forum for resources for this. I can't find anything that works and seeing only a couple pop ups a day is not really too helpful.
- Traffic: I find that it is difficult to find what urls are generating enough traffic to make it worth testing. Sometimes I'll find targets that are profitable but they only get a couple views per day... i've considered trying the rapid offer testing tutorial, but I'd rather wait until i find a sustainable campaign.
- LI Conversions: are LI users nonresponsive to email submits now? Is it possible that LI toolbar users dont fall for that shit anymore? I know I get scrubbed after awhile but even then there are quality issues.
In general, there are a lot of assumptions I have to make as a newbie. I don't have access to traffic quality info, limited access to what competitors are doing, demographics of the traffic, why 20-30% of clicks are dropped, where the high traffic targets are, and so on...
Still learning things on how exactly the string queries work and how the bidding algorithm behaves so u can do things like bid around people. Learning how much to spend per target in order to make a solid decision on whether or not to keep it. Same thing for rotating LP's and offers.
Despite all the progress I think I'm making in terms of getting the mechanics down, I still feel like im blind out here. Doubts about whether or not PPV is dead creep up, but as I have learned- u must have data to back up any conclusion. I have even cloned many of the case studies only to find them completely dead- no conversions, terrible CTR. I would expect to at least see something better than -99%ROI... I've put spins on things and added all kinds of bells and whistles with no noticeable improvement.
If you see any holes in my thought process please let me know! I can also provide LP examples etc and any more information about my campaigns.
Should i just quit ppv and focus on something else like FBads? (which ive tested to some degree too)
First of all... you need to stop making those assumptions. You can easily find the demographics of traffic, you can find why 30% of clicks are not showing, you can see where the high targets are.
It requires work on your end. You spend $300 total on 20 campaigns, that's good. You found 1 profitable campaign, now scale it up, optimize, split test, etc.
To answer your questions
Check your frequency cap on leadimpact, if people get your lander 2 times, your network only counts unique visitors so it'll show up incorrect on cpvlab and your network.
Start browsing other sites, too be honest, you don't need to see anyone's lander. You're doing fine and you'll learn the ropes on your own. It takes time.
Traffic and demographics, use alexa.com and quantcast , simple and easy. For more traffic, build on more urls, use affportal.com free tools you get as a member to get different urls, url variations etc.
LI is still bankable, stop complaining and either keep making campaigns and never give up or give up. Because this industry isn't easy, you need to work hard at it. Some people can make thousands by spending a few hundred, some take thousands of dollars before profitability.
@thefalcon - Glad to see you have been testing and have not quit yet. I feel your pain and have personally lost thousands to failed campaigns over the years (BUT I learned a ton in the process).
Sometimes you have to test 5 or even 10 offers to find 1 offer that really takes off and does well (this is where you make your lost money back). If you have a trusting relationship with your affiliate manager you might ask them what offers are converting for other affiliates and what type of traffic they are using for those conversions (this is key).
In my experience some traffic sources seem to work better for certain offers then others and the same is true for niches. -- In short, find out what is already working from your aff network and try testing that out first. There are a TON of crappy offers out there and finding the few that convert well is just part of the game.
You have to test and track everything. It seems like you understand how to track your metrics and have been doing an excellent job at that.
I've found that sometimes direct linking to the offer page will just not be profitable. It does not mean you are doing anything wrong.
My suggestion is you may want to consider redirecting your LI traffic directly to a good persuasive presell or review page instead of going direct to the offer page.
If you are pretty sure you are going to stay with this niche you may want to consider building an opt-in list (by giving away something as a freebie) FIRST -- and then promote your offers via email broadcasts.
Hope that helps!
~Brett
thanks tino and wwip for taking the time to give me feedback. Just gotta get my mind straight again and go back into the trenches.
Do you usually start with an offer and then brainstorm an angle and demo to target? Or do you do it from the other way around by first identifying a demo you want to convert then trying to match offers?
I've been starting with the offer- thinking about who would likely fill out such offer and what kind of presell I might need to do. I then research targets, scrape some urls based on kw's but then find that there is hardly any traffic.
I've heard that you should stick to a vertical that way you are familiar with both the types of offers that surface and also the types of traffic you are dealing with and use that as your competitive edge. I've been focusing mainly on submits because they are cheap to test. I've been targeting things related to the actual offer instead of freebie/sweepstakes sites (which i am testing next). And also I did a little testing in $3-$5 auto submits, but realized this was a little more than i was willing to spend early on.
Is it a good idea to go down the list of highest traffic sites until you find something that is targeted or has the potential for targeted subpages and then try to convert those traffic streams? Of course, I am testing this as well, but I thought to ask too.
Here is advice I've given out before a lot, people always ask your questions, in one way or another.
Find your vertical you want to use, find your traffic source, find your demo, find your offer, find your angle.
Never deviate from your plan unless the offer does not convert. Testing paid traffic source = $$$
Test, test, test
Change one thing at a time or split test with a script across 2 or 3 different landers. Pick the winner and test 3 different variations of the winner, then pick another winner. Keep optimizing, keep optimizing, keep testing, keep testing.
Stick with PPV, you already know a lot and restarting somewhere new is a waste of your time. If you want to make money, know the traffic source like the back of your hand. Test $3-5 lead submits if possible, these convert great and don't cost much more then the average email submit. try out international. A low payout or high payout doesn't mean much right now because with volume you can bank.
As far as your sites, just use affportal, start with 10 base urls, if you get a few leads, then break down each url that gets conversions. Let at least 500 views to each url.
And 1 advise from me. Don't stick to your campaign if after testing 2-3x the offer payout, although those offers are the best CR Aand high in EPC as shown by peerfly. it simply means your angle/lander don't work fornyour targets.
You may dump the offer, or, alternatively, create a new angle and test the same offer again. You have to move fast enough in PPV. this is how the game should be played. I used to be like you, kept on asking myself why they don't convert after sending so many traffic, and the offer actually convert well for others as shown in Peerfly.
I found out later on that it was because my angle not good enough. I switched later on, tried few more angles, and boom... I saw profit and ROI of more than 70%.
There must be a reason that the offer can convert well in general, so please try different angles to hit them and match them with your traffic, FYI the offer that I ran was iPad 2 smart cover offer, at which it pays $1.60/email submit.
General offer like this usually works. Good luck on your future campaigns brother!
Hi falcon, you know what? I'm in exactly the same situation as you: found a profitable campaign, but no way of scaling this up (angle/target wise). One big thing I've come to realize is this: you really need to realize which kind of people have the lead impact toolbar installed. I found this cool computer/internet related offer, designed a cool lander, collected a bunch of high traffic urls and then.. zero impressions!! (only bidder, maybe that should have been a tell already). I guess the LI user base isn't into this kind of thing, probably traffic vance would have been better.
On the other hand, I thought I found the perfect offer for what I believe is the LI demo (median age of 42, majority female http://www.ppvdomination.com/blog/pp...-demographics/) but again, hardly any impressions (also lower traffic on alexa/quantcast, so maybe to be expected).
If you'd like you can send me a pm and we can exchange what we've tried so far and exclude those ;p