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My Quest For A -50% ROI! (33)

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Hello STM members, I hope you're all doing great!

Couple of months ago, I joined STM to learn AM/CPA. However, I saw the great opportunities TeeSpring is offering so I decided to hold off CPA for a while. Now I'm back and this will be my first campaign.

I read Caurmen's getting started guide and I found it very helpful. The guide has everything a newbie needs to get started. However, I wanted more input from you guys because:

1- I lost lots of money on TeeSpring so I don't want to get on the wrong foot with my first CPA campaigns.
2- I'm not interested in Adult/dating although it's probably the easiest and most profitable. I'm only interested in other areas like: solar, gaming, apps, sweepstakes...etc.
3- My budget is around $1,000 for now. I know it's small to get started, but that's what I have for now. I'm not looking to profit or anything. I would consider myself lucky if I achieve my goal which is -50% ROI ($500 out of the $1,000 I spend).

Here are my questions:

1- What type of offer should I be running? (Desktop/Mobile, direct linking/LP, high/low payout...etc). Caurmen recommended that we get started with Mobile since it's continually growing and it doesn't require a server to get started. Note: I already got accepted into F5Media.
2- Which traffic source should I be using?

Any advice, tips and tricks to get me started on the right foot will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you all for your help!

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Hey there,

What is your background and what are your skills? Where do you live, what languages do you speak?

It is probably a good idea to find something that leverages existing skills, assets, or knowledge you may currently have so that you start off with some sort of competitive advantage.

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When I first started with AM late last year, I started with online browser games. It's low CPA, but for a small budget it's perfect. Plus it's a safe offer to run on Facebook. I also did Facebook traffic. Lots of traffic on Facebook, and also is great for low budgets as you can target a lot more efficiently. As far as LP, or direct linking. You need to test that out, but I always start with an LP.

If you want to do games, and facebook. I would sign up for IQU, and Gamespipe. They have a lot of games and high CPA.

...Mobile is where it's at right now, but you probably need a bigger budget than $1,000.

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Hey buddy!

Nice to see you know what you're interested in running, like Volkad said $1000 is on the lower end of a mobile budget, especially when learning the ropes of it all but its still possible, you're just gonna have to be very definitive with your testing and also arming yourself with Caurmens cookbook will help a lot too.

Tonnes of apps and games for mobile on F5, with low payouts that you can gather some data quick, you will want to steer away from the larger payouts on $1k starting budget on mobile, so maybe solar is out of the option there. Hmm, maybe even Solar on POF, just collecting all the cheap excess traffic.

Good luck with it all man!

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Hey cmdeal, thanks for your reply!

1- My background: I have an engineering degree in Biology but I've been doing digital marketing for 5 years now (I never worked in my study field!). I've done pretty much everything digital marketing (email, content marketing, SEO...etc), but I specialize in social media marketing.

2- I live in Algeria.

3- I speak Arabic, French and English.

My problem is that I always shoot for competitive markets (the US mostly) while there are way easier ways to make money in other countries. If you have any suggestions based on my answers, then I would really appreciate it. Thanks!

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Thank you very much for the advice volkad, I appreciate it!

I'll definitely sign up for the networks you recommended. I've also been running Facebook ads for a while, so that could be an advantage. Is there any other traffic network that I should use to promote those games, or is Facebook enough?

Thank you!

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Thanks for the encouragement maynzie. I appreciate it!

I know that $1K is a small budget for AM, but it's just for the first month. I'll try to make more money from consulting so I can invest it in AM for the upcoming months.

I have some questions:

1- What is considered a low payout? $1, $2...etc.
2- For my first campaign, I will probably start with games as volkad suggested. Do you recommend Desktop games or mobile?

Thank you for your help. I'll post an update as soon as I get my first campaign up and running.

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You will face less competition in French speaking markets, so I would probably focus there if I were you.

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Well you can do Media Buying for games, but that's not cheap either, and can take more time optimizing. I was never able to get good ROI with media buying and games. I stick to facebook or mobile mostly.

I wouldn't do mobile games on Facebook, the main reason is because Facebook tends to work directly with developers for mobile games and you won't be able to get that option where it has the "install" quick option, instead you can do "download" slow redirect to app store. It makes a HUGE difference. So, my advice is to stick with desktop games on Facebook.

I've ran some games on reddit, but they don't allow redirects so you will have to use a nice landing page for that. There isn't too much traffic on there though...if you use the subreddits. Be sure to ask your manager if it's okay to run offer on reddit.

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You might want to consider POF given your lower budget. You could run French and English (the former in Canada as well as France) and niche down to achieve early success.

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Hi STM members, here is an update to my follow along!

Traffic source: Facebook Ads
Budget: $1000
Vertical: Gaming (Desktop)
Networks: F5Media, GamesPipe

Here are some offers I'm interested in:

Total Domination: $1.48
Stormfall: Age Of War: $1.60
Lord Of The Rings Online: $2-$3.20
Marvel Avengers: $1.28 - France
Eden Eternal: $1.20 - FR, BE, LU
SMITE: $2.80

Can you please help me choose 1-2 offers I can start with. Also, I would appreciate any suggestions about good online gaming offers that I didn't mention.

Thanks!

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Lord of the Rings Online has been around forever - unless you have an idea for a good new angle or there's an expansion coming out (I don't think there is) you'll probably find most of your target audience has already tried it.

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My advice: ignore the others and hit Smite as hard as possible.

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Hi Zeno, I wanted to go with SMITE, but GamesPipe told me that they can only send me money using wire transfer which is not possible in my case. I decided to pursue another gaming offer on F5Media with a payout of $1.76 since they accept PayPal. However, I made the mistake of testing a Facebook sidebar ad with my prosper link that I setup on my domain. The offer is country specific so I think Facebook's bot followed the redirection to some crappy offer and banned my link. I can's upload my campaign link for sidebar ads now. I read your guide twice, yet I don't know how I forgot about this. Can you please tell me how I solve this and prevent it from happening the next time? Should I always use landers instead of a prosper link? Should I ask my affiliate manager to turn off geo-redirection or should I do it myself following the steps on your guide?

Thank you very much for your help!

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For next time - set up a geo redirect rule that sends all clicks that aren't from the geo you're targeting straight to the offer, rather than to the affiliate network URL.

In other words, if you're targeting DE with your campaign URL, send all non-DE visitors straight to www.strife game.com ( or whatever the game URL is).

That'll mean FB approvers don't get caught in an aff network redirect.

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Rely on your own methods and nothing else.

From your network's end, they can't turn off geo-redirection per affiliate (only per offer), so it's unlikely to happen.

You should make all clicks go to the offer directly until you are ready to go live (i.e. don't even have an aff URL as part of your campaign during approval... at all!).

If you blacklist your domain, CNAME another domain/subdomain over it.

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Thanks for the advice Caurmen. I'm trying to redirect all the traffic that is not coming from the country I'm targeting to the game's direct website URL, but I'm confused on how to do that. The scripts section of geo-redirection that Zeno has written about in his Facebook guide is pretty clear. However, I have propser202 installed on my domain and I want to use the 2nd method (the tracking system method) Zeno has talked about to do the redirects. You should know that I'm targeting desktop traffic so is it possible to use STM-modded P202 in my case along with propser202? I'm confused! Thanks in advance!

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To clarify: do you have the STM-modded p202 tracker installed, or vanilla/default p202?

They are different -- the former can only be downloaded here on the forum.

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Hi Zeno, I have the Prosper202 that comes with the Beyond Hosting VPS package, so I think it's the default one. I didn't install the STM-modded p202.

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I don't think vanilla p202 has the advanced redirect functionality that was added to the STM-modded p202.

So, your best bet is to a) use the geo-redirection scripts I posted and link ads to these (either before p202 or after) or b) simply put the offer lander as the affiliate URL, then switch it to the affiliate URL after approval.

The latter option (b) is not ideal and won't offer much protection, so I strongly suggest the former.

Are you on the Starter package with Beyond or a different one?

With the starter VPS there are some limitations and I am not sure if GeoIP/GeoIP2 usage is possible - ask their support about this if so.

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Hi Zeno, thanks for your help!

I have the Starter Package, but here is what their support team told me: "The GeoIP City Lite and Country Lite free databases are installed and active for your use.
".

Also, I tried the test scripts you provided on the Geo-redirection section and the browser returned my country, so I guess it's working.

I also followed your instructions and uploaded the redirect script on the server and I believe everything is working properly since F5Media reported that I had 49 clicks after the first 2 days of the campaign (I guess this means that the redirect script is working properly since it's redirecting to the F5Media affiliate URL).

I didn't get any conversions out of those clicks though, so I'm trying to follow your Facebook guide step by step so I can start on the right foot. Here is how I setup my campaign:

1- I setup the campaign goal as "Website Clicks" as I couldn't get the conversion pixel verified after inserting it into the F5Media dashboard.
2- I started with 2 ad sets. The targeting for both ad sets is identical (Male | 18-35 | Sweden | Interest: MMO, MOBA, MMORPG).
3- I put 3 identical ads in the first ad set all with the same targeting, copy and image [Image 1].
4- I put 3 identical ads in the second ad set all with the same targeting, copy and another image [Image 2].

I wanted to keep things simple and start with just 1 duplicated ad in each ad set until I figure out the rest (I'm only split testing by 2 images for now).

Is this the right format you talk about in your Facebook guide. If it is, I'll create more ad sets with different images, targeting and copy. By the way, I couldn't find oCPM in the power editor so I submitted a bid for CPM.

Thanks a lot! I appreciate your help. I'll report results tomorrow.

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Hi houssem, looks like we are on similar journeys! I have worked in internet marketing but not for myself - that's the goal. Also trying to learn Facebook (gaming) got my first campaign live last night - Zeno has been a massive help!

I would try loading up STM p202 it wasn't so hard (caurman has instructions through zenos guide on geo location) happy to help where I can

How has you journey been so far?

Have you had any cpas triggered? I got my first today! Still -95% roi but the 1 lead was a goal and a massive motivator for more.

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1. The pixel verification is meaning less - they don't (can't!) check if it is placed until someone converts. When it fires they say "OK, it's working so is now verified". Every pixel you make will be unverified until further notice.

2/3/4. All looking good.

I would however recommend split-testing against ads targeting just MOBAs, or just MMOs - they are very different games and LoL for example is one of the most polarising and highly-played games in the world.
As for your bidding, I would recommend avoiding CPM like the plague and only doing CPC or oCPM.

Start with CPC so you pay for clicks that give you data, otherwise you may burn money on oCPM.

If oCPM doesn't appear, it's probably because you are doing sidebar ads (yuck!) -- change the objective to website conversions and oCPM will appear.

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That's great aady83! I've been freelancing in the digital marketing space for 5 years now, but I'm still trying to figure out the best way for me to make money online. Zeno has definitely been a massive help. It would've taken me months to figure these things out if it wasn't for his help!

I'm glad you got your first conversion! To this day, I still remember my first affiliate conversion several years ago. I still didn't get a conversion from the gaming offer I setup at F5Media yet, but I believe I'm getting there

I will PM you my Skype ID so we can keep each other accountable! I'll be following your follow along

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Hello STM members, here is an update of the campaign I ran couple of days ago:

Offer: Infinite Crisis.
Payout: $1.76.
Geo: Sweden.
Traffic source: Facebook.
Offer network: F5Media.

1st campaign run:
The first time I ran the campaign, I didn't follow Zeno's guide. I basically had:
- 1 campaign [Direct Linking | Sidebar Ads | Website Conversions].
- 2 ad sets: [Sweden | Female | +13 | MMO+MMORPG] AND [Sweden | Male | +13 | MMO+MMORPG].
- 6 ads in each ad set each one with a different image and the same copy [6 images and 1 copy].

Results:
Total Reach: 6,433
Ad set 1 [male]:
Clicks: 54
Conversions: 0
Cost: $17.39
Best CTR: 0.150%
Best performing ad (CTR):
Ad set 1 [male]


Ad set 2 [female]:
Clicks: 19
Conversions: 0
Cost: $17.21
Best CTR: 0.107%
Best performing ad (CTR):
Ad set 2 [Female]


2nd campaign run:
I followed Zeno's guide and I realized I did everything wrong the first time. I had:
- 1 campaign [Direct Linking | Newsfeed Ads | Website Conversions].
- 3 ad sets: [Sweden | male | 18-35 | MOBA | Image 1] AND [Sweden | Male | 18-35 | MOBA | Image 2] AND [Sweden | Male | 18-35 | MMO | Image 2]
- 9 ads: 3 duplicates in each ad set with the 2 best performing images from my first run.

Results:
Total Reach: 2,000
Clicks: 5
Cost: $15.31
Conversions: 0
Best CTR: 0.621

Any feedback would be really appreciated. Thanks!

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Your CPC is $3 ? Quite expensive no?

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Hi Houssem,

I'm having the same problem, just getting it to convert after the click - I have got the CTR up to .5/.6 just cant get to convert after that.

The question i have is when to call it quits on an offer. I have tested it on Male 24-28, male 29-35 female 18-25 and female 29-35

I have had one conversion, buy I am almost $50 into the campaign. should I just stop it and move on?

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@aady83 - If the offer ain't converting, the offer ain't converting. Either try a new angle or a new offer.

@houssem - the second ad set looks like it's very expensive in terms of clicks. I'm not sure the math is going to work out there unless you're confident you can MASSIVELY reduce the CPCs.

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thanks - I was going to stop it completely, but saw I had another conversion (2 in total) still on -94% ROI but feel like i am getting somewhere, I have cut back on some of the ads, to see if i can get some more conversions from the ones that did convert, then going to look to change the creative to similar and hopefully work on getting it going.

I guess the hardest part for newbs is knowing when to cut, and figuring out how many offers to go through to see one that works (obviously they are not all going to be winners)

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I agree Alexandre. It's the most expensive CPC I've seen in my life! I'm still trying to figure out why

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I will keep all of this in mind when I'm scaling next time Zeno. I believe that my mistake was not to give ads enough time (3-4 days) before determining if they're a good candidate for scaling. I usually freak out if I find a profitable ad and try to scale it the next day

Thanks for your help Zeno!

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Hello STMers, I hope all is well for everyone!

Here is an update of my campaigns so far:

Campaign 06: Clicks To Website | Direct Linking + Landing Pages | Newsfeed Ads | CPC + oCPM Bidding:
Results:
Clicks: 401 website clicks
Spend: $360.72
Revenue: $252
ROI: -30.14%

Campaign 07: Clicks To Website + Video Views | Direct Linking + Landing Pages | Newsfeed Ads | CPC + oCPM Bidding:
Results:
Clicks: 465 website clicks
Spend: $432.35
Revenue: $297
ROI: -31.31%

I stopped both of these campaigns. They were draining a lot of money and I couldn't turn them positive. They were converting really well, but no matter what I did, it works for a short while and then stops for some reason. I also did a small experiment with Facebook video ads, but they sucked in performance. Did anyone have good success with videos?

Also, do you think stopping both campaigns was the right decision?

Both of the above campaigns were from the same offer, but different geos. I started another campaign targeting a 3rd geo, but it didn't convert at all. Here are the results (I stopped this as well):

Campaign 08: Clicks To Website | Direct Linking | Newsfeed Ads | CPC Bidding:
Results:
Clicks: 23 website clicks
Spend: $8.55
Revenue: $0
ROI: -100%

As you can see, my CPC was good ($0.39), but this geo didn't convert after 23 clicks. I know it's probably not enough data, but my gut tells me that it's never getting profitable (compared to the other geos).

So, I started 3 new campaigns and I'm waiting for them to collect some data. Let's hope I find a winner soon

Are there any other members who are running gaming offers successfully on Facebook? Any feedback would really be appreciated. Thank you!

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Well, since your goal was to get to -50% ROI, at least you have achieved that. I would try to build on the -30% ROI campaigns as much as possible if you have the budget for it and keep on trying and testing different things.

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