Fucking, Fucking, Fucking Liars -- Traffic Factory (53)
Incredible.
First week I came on board -- managed to make around 50k first week with Traffic Factory
they noticed -- so why don't we steal some money, huh?
He is #1 top bidder and not showing signs of weakening.
Then they decided to artificially DROP my CTR -- and nobody informed me of anything.
When I noticed after couple of days of me being tolerant to losing money -- account manager told me - "yes we are doing some algorhytm changes. We are like Google, we can't tell you what we change."
Yup, but Google (although crazy and what not) never tests on the cost of their advertisers.
And they were all happy because I was still spending like 10k a week with their high ctr - then I pulled the plug and stopped it entirely.
Fuck you Traffic Factory.
It goes a day and here they are - noticing lack of funds -- contacting me -- telling me everything is alright.
I re-activate the account to test.
These are test results:
CTRs:
0.30%
0.16%
0.09%
0.17%
0.16%
0.11%
It would all be cool if I haven't suspected the problem and put there CLONES OF THE SAME BANNER!!!
Not here to bitch, just to confirm -- how many impressions / clicks banner needs to be 99.9% statistically significant?
Traffic Factory -- fuck you and your bullshit politics -- luckily I have main business that does well for me so I can tell you to fuck off even if that means leaving tens of thousands weekly on the table -- maybe you get a bit smarter.
Plus I was very good -- I haven't talked BS about them before - now letting my buddies here at STM know to be extra careful and monitor campaigns daily.
I have some more money there, I'll spend it -- and that's about it what they will see from me - unless something drastic changes. Peace.
Edit: Every time I come to forums I forget there are 100s people reading it. With 100s people comes 100s questions 
I realized I wasn't clear and what I wrote to you here was just a final stage of my war with them. The MAIN phase is basically where they artificially, during their "tech changes" period manipulated CTR, and they admitted it -- conversation with their representative is included as a proof -- I think on page 3.
To say -- some of the banners mentioned got over 66 million impressions -- so I'd say they are significant.
Don't know how they can do business like that - are that some internal games or whatever -- but luckily, they are not the only ones.
Thanks for posting your experience
I don't remember any specific posts but this is not the first time I have heard of trafficfactory acting shady. I have had people I trust in the past also complain about their campaigns being picked apart once spends/volume increased.
April 18th they sent this email:
Dear Advertiser,
I'm writing to let you know that our engine is changing its algorithm for the banners, and from now on, more fair chance will be given to advertisers who are bidding higher for their CPC campaigns, it's the way RTB is supposed to work. The change in algorithm is being made as we speak, so advertisers who used the upload of many new banners daily to artificially boost their CTR and keep their bids low, will no longer to play their unfair game to get their AdRate higher only thanks to their artificial CTR. This means that everyone will be able to compete fairly and bid will weigh more than the CTR in the calculation of the AdRate.
Please let me know if you have questions, I'll be glad to answer them via skype or email.
Thank you!
"We are like google, we can't tell you what we change." I don't like that. Why can't they?
They have an STM account would be curious to hear their response.
Originally Posted by Mr Green
That's pretty shady, let's see what their rep on STM will say.
Thanks for sharing... was thinking of joining them... due to xvideos... but now I am thinking twice...
although... i do not think they will try to grab my cents and pennies... :P
it is still good to see some public opinion...
ugh... thats so sketch.
So we know they sent an email telling advertisers of the planned changes (see evasive's post).
What we need to ask:
-- why was their algorithm so shit that it didn't have a TRUE relationship between CTR and CPC (based on CPM)?
-- People uploading FRESH creatives daily were rightfully paying lower CPC, as everything should be CPM on the backend. Do they not know about the law of freshness and how it's vital on basically EVERY platform?
-- Why are the stats different (if OP is correct about statistical significance)? If they are indeed shady and can meddle with stats, that's very concerning.
-- If they wanted more money out of everyone, why didn't they do what POF did a few times: raise the minimum CPM rate?
Seems odd. Testosterone, if I was you, I would still be running ads but slagging them off at the same time to make competition leave, thereby forcing them to fix their shit at the same time!
Originally Posted by redrummr
I don't like doing business with people I don't like.
In this case, I'll do next best thing -- my affiliate is happy to go there and it will be quite interesting to see higher CTRs on the same banner on the account they don't know belongs to me
50k first week -- it could only grow. So they are missing 2mil+ a yr biz with that stupidity.
http://awesomescreenshot.com/00e2uywc3d
See this -- when I started suspecting something is fishy -- two days ago I did 5 same banners -- now here are the fresh stats and I think
each is statistically significant. These you see are ALL SAME banner.
I do have more proof on many millions of impressions -- but that can be justified like not the same day, etc etc... so this is - same day, same banners, same
everything.
Plus -- this banner you see -- is converting naturally at TF at 0.30% -- everything below is pure fabrication by them (I can understand 0.29 or 0.25 but not 0.09 and with the same day 0.17 -- which is like 180% difference).
Enough on this topic - their CRM data is not real and they are stealing.
Hopefully, just from me - so you will not have problems.
But, keep an eyes open.
(And don't worry about me -- I am happy guy I have identified the suckers and moving to other platforms
What type of placement are you using here?
Towers?
Squares?
If you're using the same banner 5 times, it would make sense that the CTR would be different for each.
In the squares, I believe they have 2 for each page. The top square will outperform the bottom square. It's quite possible you'd see a 0.29 vs 0.09 CTR if both banners are the same. The user would be more likely to click the top version, or ignore subsequent views of the same banner. Once a single banner gets momentum and gets 'ahead' in the TF bidding algorithm, it will receive more first page views, and get more clicks than the other clones.
Likewise, with towers, I'm not sure how the algorithm works but their order of appearance in the session would undoubtedly have an effect on the CTR. If you're using the same banner and user doesn't click it on page load #1, he's less likely to click it on page load #2. Second clone is likely to have a much lower CTR.
There's a big difference between a stable CTR 1 week in to the campaign vs. stable CTR 1 day in. Especially if you're using just one variation.
Based on your spend, it sounds like you've been monopolising the top bid. I don't think you can realistically expect to run a single ad for days on end and see the same performance. It will deteriorate exponentially with every clone you produce, especially those clones that appear later in the session.
This sounds kinda similar to POF banner burnout. The more duplicates, the faster the burnout.
Use lots of small variations instead, or just a single version of the banner.
Same everything. Same campaign, same placement, same banners.
Finch, this simply tells me you haven't been reading the post properly. So my ego is a bit hurt
Let me explain: Brother, I am aware that I can't be just using and using one banner... lol... I have hundreds of banners, but couple of days ago -- I started suspecting their system is playing idiotic games on me, so I started this 5 same banners test.
As I said - I am monitoring and following it for some time now. First case that told me something smells bad was on my control banner which deteriorated in performance impossibly fast (ctr) when their 'tech changes' started. When I added it with their admitting of something is wrong later AFTER I confronted them about it -- I had enough proof to convince ME.
finch explantion sound very reasonable,
I can say even more, even if the video is more "interesting"
you will see lower ctr, so in order to be sure you need to know lots of variables..
What it means even same banner, same placements, same site can lead to different ctr, there are much more variables ..
@testostorne I cant understand why they will mislead you, for what I think
its good for them to have you, you will increase thier bids and they will earn more money
Originally Posted by redrummr
Originally Posted by redrummr
Also, due to the new changes you can only test / run 3 ads at the same time, so the OPs numbers can not be the result a splittest done with the same traffic.
Originally Posted by redrummr
Originally Posted by testosterone
What I mean is from the screenshot you posted...
You've got six clones with massively varying impressions:
2,893,046 -- 0.17% CTR
735,826 -- 0.12% CTR
21,786 -- 0.16% CTR
22,058 -- 0.17% CTR
332,516 -- 0.09% CTR
21,767 -- 0.16% CTR
Regardless of same banner, same placement, same day...
The variable that you haven't considered is session depth. That's why the banner with the most impressions (the top bid) has a higher CTR than the banner with much fewer impressions. It's appearing faster and attracting more clicks for that reason alone.
Regardless of whether TF are playing games, I wouldn't draw any conclusions from that particular test. It's not statistically significant.
Originally Posted by Finch
First of all, the question of whether an experiment is statistically significant or not is completely meaningless if the experiment was NOT carried out properly in the first place.
In order to carry out a test properly, you need to change just one variable (your independent variable) and hold all the others (extraneous variables) constant. Otherwise, it is not a fair test.
And if it is not a fair test, it does not matter if your sample size is 2 million impressions or 2 trillion impressions. The results will still be flawed.
Secondly, I don't do adult and I have never worked with this traffic source, but it is also not clear to me what you are accusing the traffic source of actually doing.
Is it that
or
b) your ads actually had the impressions they suggest but had higher click through rates than what they are reporting?
If it is a, I don't think it is really fair to call them liars.
If it is b, then I don't really see what the traffic source has to gain from telling you that your CTRs are lower than what they actually were. Indeed, if I was paying on a CPC basis, I would be absolutely delighted if a CPC traffic source under-counted the actual click throughs that I got. My gain, their loss.
It may be that you are suggesting instead that
If your claim is indeed c, then yes, this is a more serious charge if you are paying on a CPM basis. And this may indeed be the case. But once again, your experiment does not support this conclusion.
Without offending you, accusing they artificially lower your CTR sounds a bit strange to me. Especially in a model where high CTR equals high eCPM for them it just doesn't make much sense at all.
Not sure how their algo exactly works, but assuming you're running for quite some time, covering the major spots and consistently being the bid winner, your ads might have faced burnout. Burnout = lower CTR = lower earnings for them per 1k/impressions.
In the end, all they care about is the eCPM. If it's 1 big affiliate outbidding everybody else or a random group of advertisers / affiliates, for them, all that matters is CTR.
Before accusing them of being a rip off, I'd double check for competitors outbidding, banner burnout, changes to their placements, changes to design / UI, make sure nobody is running with your creatives there. Especially since lowering your CTR when being CPC doesn't make any kind of logic to cheat on. Plus, it's not like they're around for a couple of months only (but for sure this does not eliminate the chance of something fishy going on).
Thanks, you might be right.
I would not be writing this if it would be just CTR. Heck, maybe ads burned out and ctr dropped. Maybe those 5 clone ads all got different ctr because of some weird statistical phenomenon or... something else.
What pissed me off was this... I was advertising, successfully. One day it became not profitable. I said "ok, let's see another day" - then again, same thing.
Only THEN, when I confronted them, they informed me about that tech changes, and later they sent an email to all advertisers.
Here's copy paste from our chat conversation where they admit their CTR number was NOT accurate -- so buddy fjk87 - believe me a bit more, because when I start accusing, it is long overdue, after I gave them chances to let me talk to their 1) tech guys 2) superiors 3) written emails 4) called and even offered my tech guys to help them solve the issue.
I will remove name of the support representative just because they're not to blame and don't want to see them hurt by company that doesn't inform them well.
TECH REP: "ok so it means that you and me (admin) are seeing the same numbers but tech sees diffetrent numbers.."
TECH REP: they told me they're working on fixing the issue
TECH REP: I'm ging to the HQ in Prague on Monday
TECH REP: I may try to get a better answer for you by Monday afternoon
Me: Thanks.
Me: Would it make sense if I come to Prague to have them teach me and explain me how to use your platform?
TECH REP: no
TECH REP: our tech is in France and we don't have any advertisers get in touch with tech
TECH REP: once the new algo is fully functioning, we will make a large document
TECH REP: with how the system works and so on
Me: ok, when do you expect it to be finished?
Me: did they give you any date?
TECH REP: they didn't...
TECH REP: I discussed your case with my colleague as well
Guys, as you see I even offered to fly to Prague to see if they can give me any accurate data I can work with. Don't know about others, but when I say "fuck you xx" it means really what it says.
Originally Posted by ibanez
Especially when it comes to the point of accusing.
Yes - that limitation might be correct, I even think you can run only 1 banner per whole network (no double banners), but we overcame it with a little white-hat hack.
Also -- please, please don't accuse -- you said to the guy basically answering for me -- saying that it couldn't be a result of split test.
WRONG. I uploaded all 5 banners and they were "casting" them (giving them 20k impressions each).
So in summary: split test was as precise and accurate as it could get with their network.
Actually, you know what guys, thanks to Ibanez especially - who is so pro Traffic Force (any connections to them?) -- why am I even bothering sharing this?
I will seriously consider whether or not to inform here about any other findings because a) for me there is no reward and b) for doing good stuff, you get bullshit -- yes, from only one or two guys, but still, it pisses me off, because I am sharing something that could save you money if you ever decide
And final quote from Mr Ibanez
Originally Posted by ibanez
Proof?
THEY FUCKING ADMITTED IT!!! Read above.
2) My test - done in best, most accurate split testing environment possible on that platform (same time, same banners, same traffic settings) got seriously different ctrs -- and I did that test AFTER they verified me they played with the CTRs -- so I wanted to check if the situation is fixed now, because by now, as a fact, I experienced:
1) they informing me late of the changes
2) their representatives not being informed properly by the tech dept.
3) all the changes they did somehow didn't work out in my favor.
so when they said their changes are finally done -- I was skeptical.
And I wanted to check.
When I saw my control banner, even after a break of 1 week due to my protest campaign pause, having more than double lower CTR than it had before, I ran this test.
If you don't like this thread, admins, please delete it -- and forget I ever mentioned something.
Thanks for contribution Ibanez -- yes, how could almighty Google be wrong, how could almighty Traffic Force be wrong -- higher the odds are that some crazy STM member is full of it, right? You won. I don't have time for this shit. For constructive stuff I answer, but for stuff like "the OPs numbers can not be the result a splittest done with the same traffic." means in short you're saying "testosterone, you are lying" -- and call me too sensitive, but isn't it more constructive if you'd have asked me for more proof or anything, before just shooting claims and answering questions of another member in this thread?
So they were basically showing u bloated stats which were not the same on the backend?
Exactly.
And they confirmed me that.
And that's what pissed me off. I can be tolerant, wait for them to fix the system, lose 5-6k in the process, all good if once it comes back it will be same or better than before. But seeing significantly lower ctrs, I suspected, so ran a test that you saw.
Originally Posted by testosterone
I have no connection to any of those guys.
Originally Posted by testosterone
Originally Posted by testosterone
Originally Posted by testosterone
Weren't you the guy that admitted in one of his previous threads that you have no clue about tracking? I would like to quote this line but I have to agree with you, I don't have time for this shit either.
Originally Posted by testosterone
Originally Posted by ibanez
IMO they have some of the best customer service out of any traffic source. If OP has an issue with them, just blast them an email
Originally Posted by Mr Green
It can be quite hard to discern facts from emotions when you're frequently saying 'fuck these guys' and 'fucking scumbag liar fucks'. This isn't Wickedfire. I think the message you're trying to get across has gotten a bit lost in the angst of your posts...
Is it that ad CTR started falling rapidly coincidentally with 'tech changes' that they didn't notify advertisers about?
If so, would it not be better to show banner CTR dropping from before the changes to after? The CTR of a particular banner, or the campaign average. A large drop in CTRs across the board would be convincing.
Whatever the case, I don't think later running some banner duplicates for several days and seeing a CTR drop from an initial 0.30% to 0.09-0.17% tells us much. The same will happen on Facebook all the time. Was the original banner CTR 1.0%? It's hard to grasp your frustration with no benchmark to compare to.
You did say you made 50k... so I presume you had a lot of impressions flying around. Did the CTR also drop substantially on a banner that had very little previous exposure?
It's Traffic Factory.
Traffic Force is good.
Any update on this? I just got accepted into Traffic Factory. Will wait to see how this unfolds before I make my first deposit (if).
Thanks guys for the heads up!
Amy
Originally Posted by the_professor
"We uploaded new banners for the fresh impressions"... OH, now I understand the algorithm. Make sense I could not make a dime and I hated their algorithm which I never understood. Always the same players... I will give them another try if their new algorithm is actually more "FAIR". The highest BIDDER gets the more traffic.
Their CTR BS is complete no sense since we all know the CTR has no incidence on the sales. Also, High CTR banners are usually playing with the surfer's confidence and they are too flashy.
Basically, a good banner is simple and tell exactly what the surfer will see. But you get a LOW CTR, and it never worked out with TF. I put 1k in them and moved elsewhere since their algorithm was too complex and stupid. Glad it might have changed.
Originally Posted by testosterone
Traffic Factory? Traffic Force? Traffic Junky? This is the most confused writing I have ever read.
Lol, all thread is about Traffic Factory. I got confused by their names as well lol.
They seem to be more stabile now. Not to my liking though, but maybe lower volume affiliates will find some benefit. If not, then I have no clue where that money ends to.
@Humbleaid Welcome to the adult industry
Thanks testosterone for reporting back! One of my AMs recommended that I try them. I'll give them a go and report back if I experience any problems.
Amy
Interesting thing:
My new affiliate is very profitable there.
I - with my old acc am not.
But I no longer think it is any tech thing - I just gave up on them. Focused on other things.
They might be solid now or still fucked up (as far as I am concerned)
Originally Posted by testosterone
I'm not saying TF is like that but I don't trust a lot of people in this biz.
any update on this?
Originally Posted by jondigo
I always say one of the most important things starting brand new in AM is knowing where to learn and where to start off. there are a massive amount of people out there who prey on new affiliates and a lot of garbage information.
Originally Posted by angry old lady
This is my experience with Traffic Factory:
All new banners that are uploaded to Traffic Factory will go through what's called the "casting process", where they'll send really high quality traffic to the new banners to establish the CTR. After the casting process is over, this CTR will be used along with your bid to determine your traffic levels. (e.g. banners with high CTR and high bid will get more traffic)
Usually during the casting process I can make a tidy profit due to the high quality traffic burst. The "problem" I'm having is that, once the casting process is over, my ranking (compared to other advertisers) drops, which results in a sudden drop in traffic level and traffic quality = drastic drop in conversion rate. Of course, if my banners' CTRs were higher my ranking would not drop so drastically. I need to work on my banner CTR more.
What I'm mainly using Traffic Factory for now, is to test new banners. The casting process is PERFECT for testing new banners, because for a short while you get a quick burst of high quality traffic, which should pay for the testing and more!
Then, after casting is over, I would look at the stats, and scale the best banners to the other traffic sources.
As for the camp on Traffic Factory, I would pause the underperforming banners, and tweak the bid to make some of the remaining ones profitable.
^ That's pretty good advice.
Just remember not to get lazy when resizing the 315x300 banners in to 300x250.
You can always tell when an affiliate has phoned in his morning work by deselecting 'constrain proportions'!
The phone in is actually a lot worse on TrafficFactory with their 'unique' 338x235 size, not saying I haven't done it though -_-
^ You will be surprised that used to work very well for a longgg time.
Originally Posted by vortex
Originally Posted by isdaron
Kyle
why not just reupload the same banners/campaigns daily to receive consistent "casting" traffic?
Whatever happened with their rep who was supposed to respond to the thread? I was about to open an account with them and then found this.
I wouldn't base my decision to not open an account with them solely on this thread. There is plenty of money to be made with them and all my interactions with them have been straight forward
*edit* Now I think of it, I actually opened my account with them BASED on this thread! The way I read it was there was shitloads of money to be made with them, funny how people can interpret things completely different
I work with trafficfactory for more than a year, i find the platform the easiest to use among all adult networks.
I mean you upload banners without attaching any links to it, and then you can swap the same banners among multiple campaigns with different links. Where else can you find it??
Another thing i love about trafficfactory is that you bid CPC. You don't have to check every half hour if your CTR droped to make sure you are still profitable. You know exactly how much you will pay for certain amount of traffic. That's great!
Now the problem is that the volume of traffic depends a lot on CTR. It used to be very easy to get 0.30CTR on a square banner(Mobile). NOw you are lucky if you get a 0.24%-0.25%. You may get more traffic by increasing the bid, but then you may get unprofitable on your offer.
Another thing is that these days you get in a bid war with other advertisers. A year ago no one was overbidding me, maybe they couldn't because some of my banners had as high as 0.45% CTR.
This is the only network i use, because Trafficjunky is too expensive, and Exoclick has shitty traffic.
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