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Quick question about TJ bidding system... (23)

04-23-2014 07:13 PM #1 superboi (Member)
Quick question about TJ bidding system...

I am bidding a higher bid on a spot... and I am on the 5th....

why is that?

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Take note:

it is on one GEO only... not multiple GEO... and my frequency is 3/24

04-23-2014 07:16 PM #2 andy1750 (Member)

Presumably because you have a tight frequency cap.

Cheers,

Andy

04-23-2014 07:23 PM #3 superboi (Member)

I thought of that too... because the number 1 did not have any frequency... so he/she should get a lot of impressions...

but take a look at the number 6 and number 7...

the number 7 is bidding higher... and has no frequency cap... and the number 6 has lower bid and has a frequency cap...

04-23-2014 09:50 PM #4 alpacino (Member)

Maybe your budget?

04-23-2014 10:40 PM #5 superboi (Member)

it is not the budget either... i got it at 20,000 per day...

04-24-2014 01:50 AM #6 maynzie (Moderator)

Freq cap or budget only thing I can think of, freq cap more likely if your budgets high?

04-24-2014 04:12 AM #7 zd__rd (Member)

You would be better off asking a member of the TJ support team, seeing as how they can personally investigate. I ask them questions like this all the time when I started on TJ a little while ago, they're very helpful.

04-24-2014 04:18 AM #8 redrummr (Member)

From what I've read, even if you 'set' your budget to 20k a day, if you have one of the lowest budgets (actually deposited), then you will lose out to people with more actual money in their account. So try putting more $ into your account...

04-24-2014 04:21 AM #9 maynzie (Moderator)

You would be better off asking a member of the TJ support team, seeing as how they can personally investigate. I ask them questions like this all the time when I started on TJ a little while ago, they're very helpful.
Exactly, we are only stating our opinions if you ask TJ you will get the exact answer mate

04-24-2014 04:40 AM #10 johnny cash (Member)

I agree with redrummr

Im not sure.. but i think the biggest factor has to do with how much money you have in your account. If your "budget" can actually be spent.
I personally see the difference with that.

then also if your targeting, if your impression capping & so on..

but please ask them & report back

04-24-2014 06:02 AM #11 superboi (Member)

I already sent them an email a few hours ago... I sent them the link to this thread...

There is actually nothing else left... the only thing that is left that makes sense is the money deposited in the account...

However, I am a bit shocked that this matters...

in other mainstream network... they usually do not care how much you have in your account... the only thing that matters is how bid you can give...

for example facebook: you can bid as high as you can... as long as you pay the bid... you can bid high and get the top position in the ad rotation...



what is the benefit of a bidding setup like this (TJ)?

so every advertiser needs to deposit hundreds of thousands before you can get the top position?

04-24-2014 07:06 AM #12 beastmode (Member)

I'm pretty sure it's cos your frequency cap is tighter than the others.

04-24-2014 03:27 PM #13 trafficjunky (Member)

Hi superboi,

As mentioned in other parts of the forum, your budget does matter (and quite a bit). There is a lot of misinformation being spread about our daily budget system. Setting a daily budget of $20,000 means nothing if you don't actually have $20,000 in your TrafficJunky account.

Changes in our algorithm means that it takes your actual account balance into account as well as the daily budgets that you set and tries to distribute traffic as evenly as possible throughout the day (24 hours).

That being said, you sometimes won't get a lot of traffic if your daily budget is so high and your account balance can't match it. Our system is set up to prevent overspends so you won't necessarily see a lot of traffic just because your daily budget is $20,000.

We see a lot of people posting on forums about using a 20k budget to maximize traffic but it's really not the best way to maximize traffic. It would be best to have a daily budget that closely matches what is in your account. You might possibly end up seeing more traffic that way. My suggestion would be to lower your daily budget to match what you actually have in the account to prevent this from happening in the future.

You do not need to have hundreds of thousands of dollars to be the highest bidder. You need to have a realistic daily budget that closely matches your account balance. In your case specifically, your actual account balance is nowhere near $20,000 (which is the case for most users).

04-25-2014 04:13 AM #14 zeno (Administrator)

Quote Originally Posted by superboi View Post
in other mainstream network... they usually do not care how much you have in your account... the only thing that matters is how bid you can give...

for example facebook: you can bid as high as you can... as long as you pay the bid... you can bid high and get the top position in the ad rotation...
It's different when working with a traffic source where you have to deposit money. FB charges you after the fact.

If deposit-based sources didn't throttle based on budget you could get people with $50 in their account spending $500 before the system reacts just due to the massive burst of traffic.

04-25-2014 07:36 PM #15 superboi (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by zeno View Post
It's different when working with a traffic source where you have to deposit money. FB charges you after the fact.

If deposit-based sources didn't throttle based on budget you could get people with $50 in their account spending $500 before the system reacts just due to the massive burst of traffic.
@Zeno
I worked with a traffic source that allows something like this:

even if you are a newbie or new member of the traffic source... and if you want to spend $500 per hour... it is totally up to you... (you just have to deposit the money and spend it all you want)

For example: I deposited $500 in this traffic source... and "I CHOOSE" to outbid all of the bidders in one spot... and spend all my $500 in just 1hour (or total of traffic the $500 can buy and as fast as possible)... so I get all the traffic in 1hour or so...

so obviously... after 1hour... my $500 is now $0.. and I "SHOULD NOT" receive any more traffic...



isn't that much easier and and convenient to the traffic source and the site itself? They obviously get more money too... because bidder will outbid one another... and the bid goes higher and higher... until the money of the highest bidder goes $0...



anyway... I guess I have to deal with multiple/different situation here... so if this is how TJ is doing it.. then I will have to follow it...




@TJ
Thanks a lot for clarifying this...

04-25-2014 09:37 PM #16 waltermitty (Senior Member)

They should just have an option for immediate spend or allocate over time.

Any Algo that does not award winning bid to highest bid is flawed and needs to be fixed. I could understand if you both have the same bid set but this is not the case.

04-26-2014 01:41 AM #17 mscimitar (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by trafficjunky View Post
Hi superboi,

As mentioned in other parts of the forum, your budget does matter (and quite a bit). There is a lot of misinformation being spread about our daily budget system. Setting a daily budget of $20,000 means nothing if you don't actually have $20,000 in your TrafficJunky account.

Changes in our algorithm means that it takes your actual account balance into account as well as the daily budgets that you set and tries to distribute traffic as evenly as possible throughout the day (24 hours).

That being said, you sometimes won't get a lot of traffic if your daily budget is so high and your account balance can't match it. Our system is set up to prevent overspends so you won't necessarily see a lot of traffic just because your daily budget is $20,000.

We see a lot of people posting on forums about using a 20k budget to maximize traffic but it's really not the best way to maximize traffic. It would be best to have a daily budget that closely matches what is in your account. You might possibly end up seeing more traffic that way. My suggestion would be to lower your daily budget to match what you actually have in the account to prevent this from happening in the future.

You do not need to have hundreds of thousands of dollars to be the highest bidder. You need to have a realistic daily budget that closely matches your account balance. In your case specifically, your actual account balance is nowhere near $20,000 (which is the case for most users).
I have a question about this, let's say there are 2 bidders on one placement. On that placement, nobody can spend more than $50 because that is all the traffic available on that placement. Let's say both bidders are bidding the same amount, have the same frequency cap, and are both keeping their campaigns on all day but the only difference is in their budget, one guy has it set to $50, the other has it set to $20k.

From there, if they both have $50 in their accounts, who gets more traffic/better spot in the bid order?

Now let's say the guy who has a $20k budget set, actually does have $20k in his account (or any amount greater than that of the other bidder really). According to this, the guy with a 20k budget and more cash in his account would get top priority even though neither party can spend more than $50 on that placement? If that's the case, that doesn't seem like a good system.

04-26-2014 02:50 AM #18 swiftclick (Senior Member)

This is a bit of a double edged sword, from an affiliate POV. (see what I did there?)

Firstly, many thanks to trafficjunky for being active in the affiliate community and responding directly to inquires. This is some very good information that can give you an advantage over your competition.

Secondly, I partly have to agree with these gents:

Quote Originally Posted by waltermitty View Post
Any Algo that does not award winning bid to highest bid is flawed and needs to be fixed. I could understand if you both have the same bid set but this is not the case.
Quote Originally Posted by mscimitar View Post
According to this, the guy with a 20k budget and more cash in his account would get top priority even though neither party can spend more than $50 on that placement? If that's the case, that doesn't seem like a good system.

It is a bit unfair towards anyone unable to load up their account with thousands and thousands of dollars. Like new advertisers, or someone just testing the waters with a small budget.

But at the same time, maybe this is TJ's way of rewarding their already established advertiser accounts with proven big budgets. It is also probably easiest solution to prevent account overspending, so it is at least partly justified IMO.

04-26-2014 02:56 AM #19 zeno (Administrator)

I see your point superboi - I guess it depends on the system. If the system updates frequently (e.g. every minute or less) then it can handle high spends and traffic bursts. It's when it doesn't that it can cause issues, e.g. if you spend $500/hour, but account has $50 in it and algo updates every 15 min.... if evenly spread that could be $125 of impressions gone before it updates.

04-26-2014 03:46 PM #20 superboi (Member)

@swiftclick
I have to agree that this really prevents account overspending... but still.. this situation - "prioritizing the big boys only" is a bit unfair...

Originally Posted by trafficjunky View Post
Hi superboi,

As mentioned in other parts of the forum, your budget does matter (and quite a bit).

@mscimitar
I do not think your situation will occur... especially on TJ... I think TJ only works on premium sites and sites with really good ALEXA ranking... (MEANS LOTS OF TRAFFIC)... unless you can find a spot in TJ that has very few traffic on a certain GEO (small country)

so if you are advertising on a certain site in TJ network... you will probably use all that budget... unless you are the guy with lesser money deposited in the account...

as what TJ said in the post... the one that gets prioritize is the one with most money in the account...

@zeno
I know what you're saying... it is overspending... it could hurt the network... which would be bad...

well... EXOCLICK does it... you can deposit money and use it in any way you want it (how fast/how slow... you want to spend it)...


Like I said... if this is how TJ does it... then I guess all we can do is follow it...





Quote Originally Posted by swiftclick View Post
This is a bit of a double edged sword, from an affiliate POV. (see what I did there?)

Firstly, many thanks to trafficjunky for being active in the affiliate community and responding directly to inquires. This is some very good information that can give you an advantage over your competition.

Secondly, I partly have to agree with these gents:






It is a bit unfair towards anyone unable to load up their account with thousands and thousands of dollars. Like new advertisers, or someone just testing the waters with a small budget.

But at the same time, maybe this is TJ's way of rewarding their already established advertiser accounts with proven big budgets. It is also probably easiest solution to prevent account overspending, so it is at least partly justified IMO.

04-29-2014 05:38 PM #21 trafficjunky (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by mscimitar View Post
I have a question about this, let's say there are 2 bidders on one placement. On that placement, nobody can spend more than $50 because that is all the traffic available on that placement. Let's say both bidders are bidding the same amount, have the same frequency cap, and are both keeping their campaigns on all day but the only difference is in their budget, one guy has it set to $50, the other has it set to $20k.

From there, if they both have $50 in their accounts, who gets more traffic/better spot in the bid order?

Now let's say the guy who has a $20k budget set, actually does have $20k in his account (or any amount greater than that of the other bidder really). According to this, the guy with a 20k budget and more cash in his account would get top priority even though neither party can spend more than $50 on that placement? If that's the case, that doesn't seem like a good system.
If I am understanding your first hypothetical situation correctly, they would both get the same amount of traffic in the same amount of time. If they both only have $50 in their accounts, it doesn't matter if one guy has his budget set to 20k. Our algorithm will know that he doesn't have the 20k to back the daily budget up.

In your second situation, if you have a 20k budget but there's only $50 worth of traffic in the spot, you'll only get the $50 worth of traffic. If the inventory is not there, then it is simply not there. Regardless of the actual balance in your account. I am not entirely sure if the guy with 20k actually in his account would be the highest bidder. My assumption (and I'd have to clarify with IT on this), is that they'd both get 50% of the traffic. I will have to get back to you guys on this!

04-29-2014 05:49 PM #22 waltermitty (Senior Member)

Quote Originally Posted by trafficjunky View Post
If I am understanding your first hypothetical situation correctly, they would both get the same amount of traffic in the same amount of time. If they both only have $50 in their accounts, it doesn't matter if one guy has his budget set to 20k. Our algorithm will know that he doesn't have the 20k to back the daily budget up.

In your second situation, if you have a 20k budget but there's only $50 worth of traffic in the spot, you'll only get the $50 worth of traffic. If the inventory is not there, then it is simply not there. Regardless of the actual balance in your account. I am not entirely sure if the guy with 20k actually in his account would be the highest bidder. My assumption (and I'd have to clarify with IT on this), is that they'd both get 50% of the traffic. I will have to get back to you guys on this!
In the first screenshot he is overbidding EVERYONE regardless of budget he should get the placement. Is this a glitch or intended? If you are going to have a bidding system maybe the top bid should always win?

04-29-2014 06:05 PM #23 trafficjunky (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by waltermitty View Post
In the first screenshot he is overbidding EVERYONE regardless of budget he should get the placement. Is this a glitch or intended? If you are going to have a bidding system maybe the top bid should always win?
He also has a frequency cap. Highest bid price or not, he is limiting the amount of traffic he wants to receive by frequency capping so it makes sense that he would not get as much of the available traffic as the person who is not setting limitations on their campaigns. The top bid does not always "win". If you were keyword targeting, you'd have to spend more money on your traffic, especially if it's niche. You could bid higher than someone who is not keyword targeting and that would not mean that you would necessarily get more traffic. Campaign settings like frequency capping, keyword targeting, etc. tends to raise the bid price.

One of the reasons that we like to spread the traffic out throughout the day is to benefit our advertisers. If you want to spend all your money in one shot, as quickly as possible, you are getting skewed data. We spread it out so that you can see how your campaigns perform throughout the day. Then, once you have your data, you can then see what time periods would best suit your campaigns.

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