I'm back and hungry for more. I've spent the last half year learning the fundamentals of AM through POF. Now I'm shifting my focus to Mobile and digging in. My POF follow along (http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...RAIN-with-POF!) was incredibly helpful for me, so I'm going to take advantage of the opportunity again as I take on the beast that is mobile.
Any guidance, feedback or questions are appreciated.
Offer: WAP Android GP IOS - Game App Install - LATAM (Direct Linking)
Why this offer?: My AM (that I trust) highly recommended it, lots of room to scale, I live in this geo and speak the language, I like the app, If GP bails on the offer I still have iTunes.
Targeted Geo: Argentina
Why Argentina?: Testing all of LATAM starting from the south up. Next: Chile, Uruguay, Brazil, etc.
Traffic Source: Decisive
Why Decisive?: I like the platform, but to be honest I'm having trouble finding other traffic sources with decent reviews. I'm thinking about testing out leadbolt, buzzcity or TapIt
Tracking:
Send: $50/day for now
Creatives: 7 banners provided by the offer and 3 from WRW. If the offer tests well, I will make original banners and LPs to test.
Camp 1: WiFi, Media: App, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $12.50
Camp 2: WiFi, Media: App, OS: Android, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $12.50
Camp 3: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $12.50
Camp 4: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: Android, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $12.50
Stats tomorrow!
Questions:
- Decisive still doesn't have a "cost" variable or custom variables available, correct?
- Please let me know if you have any recommended traffic sources that have decent traffic quality, allow banners and animation, low minimum spend and don't need an account rep to remove placements
Thank you!
Good start mate.
I don't think decisive has any cost passing tokens so you will have to just use an average for input into e.g.
There are so many mobile sources out there but you're right, it's hard to recommend many that offer transparency comparable to Decisive and ease of use. You could try LeanMarket, Millenial, TapIt!, etc. - pretty sure they all have low minimum budgets and decent placement tracking and optimisation.
I don't think any mobile network has any tokens to pass cost value.
However for Decisive it's pretty easy, use their pixel and you can optimize on the fly on their interface.
You wouldn't even need a tracker for Decisive.
VERy good start. I think if you stick this out with everthing and test a couple offers, you'll hit it big. You got the perfect setup, traffic source etc.. just become an expert at it and test different offers/angles consistently
UPDATE:
Offer: WAP Android GP IOS - Game App Install - LATAM (Direct Linking)
Camp 1: WiFi, Media: App, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $12.50:
41K impressions, 409 Clicks, .98% CTR, 1 Lead, $0.24 CPM, $0.02 CPC
Camp 2: WiFi, Media: App, OS: Android, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $12.50
57K impressions, 96 Clicks, .17% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.23 CPM, $0.14 CPC
Camp 3: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $12.50
15K impressions, 153 Clicks, .97% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.23 CPM, $0.02 CPC
Camp 4: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: Android, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $12.50
53K impressions, 70 Clicks, .13% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.22 CPM, $0.17 CPC
After reviewing the app placements, getting only one lead makes a little bit more sense. The majority of placements were on a hook-up/dating app. So I re-made all 4 campaigns with new targeting on audience subcategories for videogames, rollplaying games, puzzle games, etc.
I also made duplicates of these 4 camps and switched out App for Site traffic., making 8 camps total now:
Camp 1: WiFi, Media: App, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $6.25
Camp 2: WiFi, Media: App, OS: Android, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $6.25
Camp 3: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $6.25
Camp 4: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: Android, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $6.25
Camp 5: WiFi, Media: Site, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $6.25
Camp 6: WiFi, Media: Site, OS: Android, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $6.25
Camp 7: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $6.25
Camp 8: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: Android, Bid: Manual .25, Daily spend: $6.25
Yeah definitely want to focus on relevant placements first i.e. the gaming category.
UPDATE:
I was getting my ass kicked in Argentina, way too expensive for me. I had camps at $0.67 Bid and I was still getting nothing on 6 out of 8 camps.
I've remade all 8 camps for Columbia. It has a third of the traffic, but the Avg CPM is 3x lower than Argentina.
I tried to combine countries with the same avg CPM, but
The country selection in
Is WRW working well for you in terms of mobile spying in INTL countries? I couldn't get it to work when I was using the free trial.
UPDATE:
Offer: WAP Android GP IOS - Game App Install - LATAM (Direct Linking)
ARGENTINA:TRAFFIC TOO EXPENSIVE
COLUMBIA:
Camp 1: WiFi, Media: App, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .37, Daily spend: $6.25 Very Little Traffic
33K impressions, 21 Clicks, .63% CTR, 0 Leads,
Camp 2: WiFi, Media: App, OS: Android, Very Little Traffic
Camp 3: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: iOS, Bid: Manual .37, Daily spend: $6.25 Very Little Traffic
591 impressions, 6 Clicks, 1.0% CTR, 0 Leads,
Camp 4: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: Android, Very Little Traffic
Camp 5: WiFi, Media: Site, OS: iOS, No Traffic
Camp 6: WiFi, Media: Site, OS: Android, No Traffic
Camp 7: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: iOS, No Traffic
Camp 8: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: Android, No Traffic
Game category app traffic is semi-affordable in Columbia, but its practically non-existent. All the traffic is being sent to a Drag Race Game App, which is night and day from the type of game I'm promoting. Game category site traffic doesn't exist in either country...This offer also just dropped 9 out of 15 countries it is available to. Because of the high CPM of the remaining countries I haven't tried yet, I'm going to keep testing IOS APP traffic in Columbia, but other wise move on. This first offer test has been an eye opener to me on how important it is to check the Decisive Planner for the offer country's impressions, avg CPM, & App and Site category placement before committing to an offer.
I've picked a Japanese Game App (IOS/And) Offer to run. I made 8 separate camps (8 banners each) with the same targeting as above. Everything has been approved and traffic is coming in. Stats Tomorrow.
Yeah sometimes mixes of targeting lead to no traffic, just a matter of what apps/sites the network has and the corresponding demographics.
However, you can chase the demographic here. If you know that Males, 18-30 are the biggest converters on this app you could find the categories/apps that you believe they gravitate toward. E.g. hit all categories but then go through and blacklist style and fashion, teens, card games, beauty, shopping etc. to give yourself a more refined demo.
Update
For both offers I opened up the site placement categories well outside of the gaming relm to see what would happen.
Offer #1: WAP Android GP IOS - Game App Install - COLUMBIA (Direct Linking)
Camp 1: WiFi, Media: App, OS: iOS,
6.5K impressions, 47 Clicks, .72% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.23 CPM, $0.03 CPC
Camp 2: WiFi, Media: App, OS: Android, PAUSED (Spent 3x offer payout with no conversions)
23K impressions, 37 Clicks, .16% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.16 CPM, $0.10 CPC
Camp 3: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: iOS,
1K impressions, 15 Clicks, 1.1% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.24 CPM, $0.2 CPC
Camp 4: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: Android, PAUSED (No clicks)
Camp 5: WiFi, Media: Site, OS: iOS,
9K impressions, 100 Clicks, 1.1% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.39 CPM, $0.04 CPC
Camp 6: WiFi, Media: Site, OS: Android, PAUSED (Spent 3x offer payout with no conversions)
17K impressions, 250 Clicks, .13% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.22 CPM, $0.17 CPC
Camp 7: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: iOS,
81 impressions, 1 Clicks, 1.4% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.32 CPM, $0.02 CPC
Camp 8: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: Android,
1K impressions, 22 Clicks, 2.0% CTR, 1 Lead, $0.43 CPM, $0.02 CPC
Offer #2: WAP Android GP IOS - Game App Install - JAPAN (Direct Linking)
Note: I had 1 lead, but I did the postback url incorrectly, so i don't know what camp it came from
Camp 1: WiFi, Media: App, OS: iOS,
6K impressions, 44 Clicks, .73% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.38 CPM, $0.05 CPC
Camp 2: WiFi, Media: App, OS: Android, PAUSED (Spent 3x offer payout with no conversions)
23K impressions, 37 Clicks, .16% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.16 CPM, $0.10 CPC
Camp 3: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: iOS,
7K impressions, 38 Clicks, .54% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.38 CPM, $0.07 CPC
Camp 4: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: Android, PAUSED (Spent 3x offer payout with no conversions)
30K impressions, 147 Clicks, .15% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.31 CPM, $0.20 CPC
Camp 6: WiFi, Media: Site, OS: Android,
20K impressions, 96 Clicks, .47% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.34 CPM, $0.07 CPC
Camp 7: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: iOS, PAUSED (Spent 3x offer payout with no conversions)
22K impressions, 32 Clicks, .14% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.32 CPM, $0.23 CPC
Camp 8: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: Android,
19K impressions, 17 Clicks, .62% CTR, 0 Leads, $0.34 CPM, $0.06 CPC
Notes:
-Three of my Networks have $1,000 min payouts and at my current level, this could really tie up my testing money, so I'm going to focus on my other lower payout network's offers going forward.
-I'm going to try and launch a new game offer every day.
Questions:
I'm uncertain what my banner testing criteria should be. Right now I'm pausing:
- Banners with more than 1,200 views and no clicks.
- Banners with more than 5,000 views and below .3 CTR% (too high?)
- Banners that spend more than x3 the offer payout with no conversions.
I would focus on culling placements before banners. Example: banner has 2000 impressions and no clicks. But, 90% of those impressions have come from one app. The banner could do fine on lots of other placements but the data has been heavily skewed by that one shitty app.
Once you cull some placements you can also look for outliers in other areas e.g. carrier and can better compare banner CTRs and cull off the weak, make new banners that only target the placements that are performing, etc.
Exception: if the data is evenly spread across a lot of placements, and all are doing crap, it is more likely that the banner sucks. This is why mobile can be hard - a lot of data and you need to consider several things in your optimisation process.
Yep, definitely look out for placements that are hogging most of the views. Banner should all be getting approximately the same percentage of views per placement, but it's worth checking.
UPDATE:
Offer #1: WAP Android GP IOS - Game App Install - COLUMBIA (Direct Linking)
STOPPED RUNNING: Offer added a lot of restriction & wasn't converting 1,300 clicks, 1 Lead, .08% CR
I think this one didn't work out, because Columbia didn't have ideal placement options with volume for this offer. I now know to look for this ahead of time before deciding on a offer/geo.
Offer #2: WAP Android GP IOS - Game App Install - JAPAN (Direct Linking)
CLICKS 684, AVG CTR .3%, Leads 1
I've been cutting under performing placements and one banner. This offer isn't converting so far, but I'm waiting until I have significant data to cut it.
(NEW) Offer #3: iPAD Only Game Offer - CANADA (Direct Linking)
PAUSED: I had this running for 2 hours and then all my networks paused the offer for "maintenance"
(NEW) Offer #4: iOS Game Offer - (Direct Linking)
I combed the Dcsv Planner, looking for geos with low avg CPM and high volume site/app placements in the iOS game category and think I've found a good match for this offer. I set up 4 campaigns all with smart CPM, keeping goal CPA the same as the payout for now. I used 4 banners from WRW and 4 of my own. Targeting:
Camp 1: WiFi, Media: App, OS: iOS
Camp 2: Carrier: All, Media: App, OS: iOS
Camp 3: WiFi, Media: Site, OS: iOS
Camp 4: Carrier: All, Media: Site, OS: iOS
Impressions: 51K Clicks: 329 CPM: .21 CTR%: .753 Leads: 1 CPC: $.03
I've already cut a few under performing app/site placements
(NEW) Offer #5: Pin Submit Game Offer - MEXICO (Direct Linking)
I actually didn't know pin submit game offers existed, until my AM recommended this to me. I set this up with just Carrier/App and Carrier/Site, because it has a much harder conversion flow on wifi then Carrier... Waiting for approval from Decisive....
QUESTION
What benchmarks do you use for cutting site/app placements? Would it be safe to cut a placement that has anyone of these:
- 2,000 impressions with no clicks
- 5,000 impressions with under .1 % CTR
- 3x offer payout spent with no conversions
Thank you!
Yes @ all those rules, they seem reasonable.
UPDATE
I've been quiet, but grinding away. After trying 8 game offers with only one potential hit, I decided I'm going to try some app install offers as well
GAME OFFERS:
Offer #1: WAP Android GP iOS - Game App Install - COLUMBIA - Payout $.75 - Stopped Running
Clicks1,300 , Lead 1 , CR .08%
Offer #2: WAP Android GP iOS - Game App Install - JAPAN - Payout $1.50 - Stopped Running
Clicks 966, Leads 2, CR .21%
Offer #3: iPAD Only Game Offer - CANADA - Payout $2.40 Paused by Network
Clicks 121, Leads 0
Offer #4: iOS Game App Install - CANADA - Payout $1.00 Active
CTR .79% Clicks 1013, Leads 6 CR .60%
Offer #5: Pin Submit Game Offer - MEXICO - Payout $1.50 Stopped Running
This was only available for a carrier that Decisive doesn't have very much traffic for.
Offer #6: iOS Game App Instal - RUSSIA - $1.00 Active
Clicks 45, Leads 0
Offer #7: iOS - Game App Install - CHINA - Payout $2 - Stopped Running
Clicks 741, Leads 1, CR .13%
Offer #8: iOS Game App Install - NETHERLANDS & SWITZERLAND - $1.00 Paused by Network
Clicks 29, Leads 0
APP INSTALL OFFERS:
Offer #9: Android App Install - Payout $.40 Active
CTR .67%, Clicks 2127, Leads 16, CR .75%
I have three other app installs set-up and ready to go, but I need to wait so I don't spread my $50/day spend too thin. Offer #4 is showing a little promise and Offer #9 has potential as well. CTR is slowly going up as I cut low performing placements. Smart CPM is spreading out my traffic pretty well, so I'm also cutting the really low performing banners.
Looking good! You're testing a lot, which is definitely the way to go. I'm looking forward to hearing how things progress.
Wow, has it been two weeks already?
After my last post, I decided to change my testing strategy. Instead of testing 5-8 offers at a time, I just picked one offer and focused all my attention on it.
I found a sweepstakes offer in Thailand that I knew was converting well for others, had my copy translated and set-up 4 camps direct linking. Off the bat ROI was -40%, so I made four landing pages and some more banners. After a couple days it had 10% ROI and I was starting to optimize when the offer paused...my AM said it's probably not going live again...
A week ago I sank my teeth into another pin submit offer that seemed to be performing well for others. This one has been a little bit more of a struggle, but its coming along.
I made 12 camps, direct linking (rotating between two networks): App vs Site, iPhone vs And vs Other, Carrier 1 vs Carrier 2. After $30-50 spend on each camp, only one of the camps and networks seemed to have promise...I paused the other 11 camps, put four landers in rotation and took off the poor performing network. Traffic is low, so collecting enough data to optimize is taking a few days. In the mean time I've created a separate campaign with a different angle & creatives that is waiting approval.
Stats:
May 18: Spend $11.83 Profit: $11 ROI: -7%
May 19: Spend $15.53 Profit: $24.75 ROI: 59%
May 20: Spend: $13.55 Profit: $ 13.75 ROI: 1%
Today so far: Spend: $4.38 Profit: $8.25 ROI: 88%
I'm trying to spend $60/ day per camp, but Decisive is not spending it...I'm getting about 40% of the bids so I know there is more traffic. I'm going to take it off smart CPM and bid slightly higher than the camps avg CPM on manual CPM mode. I'm eager to get more data so i can cut creatives.
Good stuff! Glad to see you're in profit zone for the most part.
You are on the right course with making new campaigns on manual CPM to dominate traffic on specific placements - the smart CPM will bid to minimise your CPA but that doesn't always equate to maximising volume.
^^Thanks Zeno
Yesterday: Spend: $7.68, Profit: $16.50, ROI: 115%
I made duplicate camps and set them to Manual CPM with .05 higher then the avg CPM from the smart CPM camps. I will keep the smart CPM camps running to see how they compare. Decisive approvals have been taking 24+ hrs....
My goal is to ramp up traffic so I can collect enough data to cut poor performing creatives & placements and then scale to other traffic sources. 
Well done man, you're pretty much there. It seems like you're not the only one experiencing 24hr+ delays with Decisive.. And I'm sure you have thought of this but you didn't mention it, try upping your spend as well as moving your campaign to other traffic sources 
Yesterday:
Spend: $9.75, Rev: $13.75, ROI: 41%
The new camps with manual CPM just got approved last night, but they seem to have worked well in upping my daily spend, I'm getting 78% of traffic instead of 33%, so I paused my old camps on Smart CPM. I cut a few landers and added new ones. I also found another network carrying the offer and put it in rotation.
Great, now your goal should be to scale up by hitting other placements again and trying to bring them into profit zone.
Being on manual CPM doubled my traffic, but it's still really low. I got 71% of the bids and it ended up being only 19,000 impressions/day...Also my camps bombed hard yesterday...
Spend: $15.63, Rev: $2.75, ROI: -83% I'm not really sure what to make of this change...
I have to accept that Decisive just doesn't have enough traffic for the carrier/GEO combo I want to target. I think their is promise for this offer so I'm going to try and test this on another traffic source. If anyone has any recommendations, I'm all ears. I'm targeting Mexico. Right now I'm looking at AdiQuity and Go2Mobi, just because they seem pretty user friendly, allow animated banners and have decent reviews, but I don't have anything else to go on.
Decisive has a decent amount of Mexico traffic but the issue may be how tight your targeting is.
BuzzCity has quite a lot. I know Huntmads has a strong foothold in Latin America.
I'm not sure what other sources are ideal for mobile Mexico traffic.
Unfortunately, my AM confirmed the offer scrubbed and is no longer converting...on to the next one!
I picked up a similar offer in a different GEO with two of my networks. I'm testing two different angles with two LPs each. Approval from Decisive takes too long, so I'm going to start with 25 banners in each camp instead of 10 and whittle it down from there.
Stats tomorrow.
Good stuff mate, keep it up.
Out of the 10 camps, only one is showing promise with this offer so far:

Thus far, 100% of the conversions have come from the same device & OS Version. 
One placement is taking 50% of the traffic and using 90% of the spend. The placement is doing ok at -50% ROI.

QUESTION:
In order to give the other placements some exposure, should I make a separate camp for just this placement and then blacklist it on the original camp?
You can have your conversions in your tracker... (CPVLAB/PROSPER/
Exoclick has this feature as well.. and I never used it...
even though im not that good affiliate yet... i still want my data to be mine and mine alone... (evil laugh)...
Tracking at the traffic source level is the easiest way to see precise net profit/loss without wasting time with uploading cost reports, manual comparisons and setting averages in your tracker.
Consider your traffic source as a business. If you went to a newspaper and gave them an ad for your supplements product, would you be worried that the editors would see you dropping lots on the ads in every newspaper and would endeavor to copy you?
If they did, and yes it has happened, getting caught would tarnish their reputation. Would you work with Decisive if there were 100s of other traffic sources available (there is!) and people had campaigns ripped by their employees? In the long run, it would be imprudent of them to ever let it happen.
My point: stop being paranoid/cynical about legitimate businesses, which you are paying, ripping you off. Maybe when you're spending $10,000 daily - then you can entertain such notions.
@Zeno
Ouch! that hurts... :P
yeah I know what you mean... I was just asking a question... and not accusing anybody... I cleanse my hands when I posted it... and like I said... i was only asking...
and @op please continue with your FA... I am sorry I disrupted u for a little bit...
@makeitrain - Yes, I'd recommend making a separate campaign for just that placement, in this instance.
How many banners and LPs have you tested on that campaign so far? -50% shows that the offer is converting, but there's still a fair way to go to optimise.
It's always good to see conversions coming in, though!



Great to see the singled out placement is performing well. It makes little sense to try and track it down elsewhere as the volume probably isn't worth it... unless you know what the app is and that Decisive is only get a small % of the impressions, then it may pay to scale horizontally.
I would optimise that one placement and then focus on finding other pockets that work well on Decisive + scale to appropriate other mobile sources with your working creatives/angles.
Update:
Weekend:
Original Campaign:

This morning I cut banners with 5K impressions and no conversions. I now have 13 active banners left (from 20). I still need to collect more data until I can cut any placements.
Carriers:

I also cut Carrier #2, I'd like to cut carrier #1, but then I would have no volume left, so I'm going to wait to see how the new banner cuts improve ROI first.
LPs:

So far direct linking is out performing all my LPs...
Single Placement Campaign:

Last night I cut banners with 5K impressions and no conversions or with a CPA higher than 1.5x the payout. I have 20 banners left (from 28).
Carriers:

I'm going to blacklist Carrier #2 on this camp too. It seems to be the weak link with this offer.
LPs:

My LPs are doing a little better with this one. I think it's safe to replace LP #4 with a new one.
For that last one (single placement campaign) I would keep LP #1 and #2 and pause the other LPs and direct linking. Focus on those 2 landers, make 2 other variations of them and keep testing.
They are currently giving EPVs of just under $0.03, which incidentally is your average CPC - thus this approach will likely immediately bring you very close to profit.
Once you do that, get a few more days of data and optimise banners based on how well they have done with that combination of LPs - i.e. look at the overall data but also that from the last few days only when the good LPs have been running.