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Account termination - Not Entitled to Refund... That legal? (16)

02-24-2014 03:55 PM #1 Adamw (AMC Alumnus)
Account termination - Not Entitled to Refund... That legal?

Has anyone had any experience with having your account terminated at a traffic source, and you haven't been able to get your refunded balance back?

I know almost all of them have it in their T&C that if they terminate you for violating any part of the agreement, that you're not entitled to a refund. But is that legal?

We're going to consult a lawyer on this as well, but wanted to know if anyone has had any experiences with that.

02-24-2014 03:57 PM #2 cmdeal (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by buttonedup View Post
Has anyone had any experience with having your account terminated at a traffic source, and you haven't been able to get your refunded balance back?

I know almost all of them have it in their T&C that if they terminate you for violating any part of the agreement, that you're not entitled to a refund. But is that legal?

We're going to consult a lawyer on this as well, but wanted to know if anyone has had any experiences with that.
Of course it is legal if you have violated the T&C's you agreed to.

02-24-2014 04:07 PM #3 dario (Member)

That's unfortunate. Try to ask for some kind of arrangement (50% of the funds)

02-24-2014 04:26 PM #4 Adamw (AMC Alumnus)

We haven't actually had this happen, but are a bit weary to deposit large sums if account termination is left up to "discretion". Or if multiple ad rejections would cause an account to be terminated (No this is not Facebook).

For example, promoting Anti-virus campaigns have gotten labelled as Malware and rejected, when it's not actually malware, but if that leads to an account ban and we have 20k in the account that we can't get refunded...then how can that be legal?

02-24-2014 04:33 PM #5 godspeed (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by buttonedup View Post
We haven't actually had this happen, but are a bit weary to deposit large sums if account termination is left up to "discretion". Or if multiple ad rejections would cause an account to be terminated (No this is not Facebook).

For example, promoting Anti-virus campaigns have gotten labelled as Malware and rejected, when it's not actually malware, but if that leads to an account ban and we have 20k in the account that we can't get refunded...then how can that be legal?
Before sending money you fill insertion order. You can write whatever suits you in the insertion order.
Also, read through their rules and if you dont like something, ask if it can be changed.
This way you are all set.

02-24-2014 04:33 PM #6 keepitsimple (Member)

Consult a lawyer, esp with xx,xxx on the line. As far as T&C's being enforceable, that depends on a lot of factors. You agreeing to T&C's and violating them doesn't mean it's going to win the day in court, there's lots of stuff that goes into the decisios, tho in B2B transactions, the agreement, especially if the terms are industry standard which that account termination clause is pretty standard on every traffic source, is probably going to stand up.

02-24-2014 04:33 PM #7 cmdeal (Veteran Member)

Quote Originally Posted by buttonedup View Post
We haven't actually had this happen, but are a bit weary to deposit large sums if account termination is left up to "discretion". Or if multiple ad rejections would cause an account to be terminated (No this is not Facebook).

For example, promoting Anti-virus campaigns have gotten labelled as Malware and rejected, when it's not actually malware, but if that leads to an account ban and we have 20k in the account that we can't get refunded...then how can that be legal?
There is nothing illegal about this. If there is a disagreement about whether you have broken the T&Cs or not, then this will be up to the courts to decide.

I would suggest that if you are concerned about this, you try to drip feed in your account deposits instead of making a lump sum deposit.

02-24-2014 05:42 PM #8 titanium777 (Member)

Do they require a $20k deposit?
I always prefer to be safe, rather than sorry.

02-24-2014 05:58 PM #9 Adamw (AMC Alumnus)

No they don't require that much of a deposit.. we've just had some issues with the smaller amounts we've been spending.

02-24-2014 08:22 PM #10 grandtheftpixel (Senior Member)

CM is right.

Did you pay via a CC? Can you charge it back?

I'd still be getting my money back regardless of if your account was terminated.

02-24-2014 08:23 PM #11 bbrock32 (Administrator)

If you want to really be safe then get a good lawyer. Sometimes letters or other "scare-tactics" can do wonders.

However, based on my experience, I've never had any money frozen working with a lot of different traffic sources.

It's a matter of how much time and money you want to spend over this and how safe you want to be. Even with a proper IO you will never be 100% safe.

02-25-2014 01:07 AM #12 polarbacon (Moderator)

Quote Originally Posted by buttonedup View Post
We haven't actually had this happen, but are a bit weary to deposit large sums if account termination is left up to "discretion". Or if multiple ad rejections would cause an account to be terminated (No this is not Facebook).

For example, promoting Anti-virus campaigns have gotten labelled as Malware and rejected, when it's not actually malware, but if that leads to an account ban and we have 20k in the account that we can't get refunded...then how can that be legal?
If your getting labeled as malware don't expect to get it back..

Suggestion would be to run less spammy camps....your getting flagged due to that reason....run a little lower ROI...take less risk...

02-25-2014 01:18 AM #13 jangilb (Member)

If it's really worth the money, then contact a good attorney and get up custom agreements and service agreements written with IOs that come up with terms you and the media company are agreeable upon.

Their MSA/IOs aren't set in stone and you can negotiate it if you want. They can also tell you to beat it and either sign theirs or go. Chances are though, if you're spending a good chunk of change there they'll be flexible.

02-27-2014 01:12 AM #14 rondee (Member)

Quote Originally Posted by buttonedup View Post
We haven't actually had this happen, but are a bit weary to deposit large sums if account termination is left up to "discretion". Or if multiple ad rejections would cause an account to be terminated (No this is not Facebook).

For example, promoting Anti-virus campaigns have gotten labelled as Malware and rejected, when it's not actually malware, but if that leads to an account ban and we have 20k in the account that we can't get refunded...then how can that be legal?
Have you talked to your account manager on how to make your creatives/lps compliant sometimes it is just minor changes ?

From the looks of it you are trying to do a bite and switch if that is the case you better be sure it is worth it because the only scenario this traffic sources will do a refund is when the traffic is not working for you , to which you need an out clause for that to happen too .

Best of luck

02-27-2014 01:30 AM #15 Adamw (AMC Alumnus)

Appreciate everyone's feedback and advice.

We've been told we can run the way we are, the offer(s), and the lander(s) language as well. But different reviewers sometimes flag them (which is annoying), and even though it's documented in emails saying we are allowed, just wanted to know if it was legally ok.

02-27-2014 06:52 AM #16 rondee (Member)

If they say it's okey then it it's okey , most of this sources operate in good faith and they want your business , it's Facebook and Google who second guess themselves .

Pick up the phone , talk to them , get to know them and they will give you a heads up when things start to change .

Another tip is : little souvenirs every now and than to your account manager/rep will get you a long way (yes people are kids and love gifts no matter how rich they are ) , a shy 20 bucks when it is spent right (like getting someone to send you something from another country , decorated glasses things like that) will save you a lot of headaches and money trust me .

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