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Norwegian guy with lots of cash wants geographical freedom (19)

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Have you considered starting your marketing with Search PPC?

At the end of the day this sounds like a legit business so you will have no issues with getting banned, plus you can actually target people who are actively looking for logo design, it may be more expensive on a CPC basis but there is a good reason for that, its going to be extremely targeted.

With a $2500/month budget I can see you being profitable on Adwords much faster.

I have around 30 PPC clients right now and whilst for some we are using other traffic sources for their business, we have always start with Adwords.

Hope this helps

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Hey there,

Welcome aboard. Good to see some entrepreneurial ambitions! I think this can be a very valuable service, so I wish you the best of luck.

Just a few initial thoughts:

1. You are advertising on the wrong channel. This is primarily a Search PPC type product, not Facebook.

- As you try to target people who are interested in bands on facebook, what is the likelihood that they are in the market for a logo? Pretty much close to zero.
- On the other hand, if you target people who type in "cheap logo designer" on Google, what is the likelihood that this person is in the market for a logo? Pretty much 100%.

2. You need to dramatically improve the logos that you have on your website. This is the one chance you have to show how awesome your services are. The impression you should give is that this is a $500 product that you are selling for $24. The one you have now are okay, not great. This also applies to your own logo. This is, honestly speaking, pretty bad.

3. You need heighten the perception of value. For example, for each of the prices you have, actually have a dramatically higher price that is struck out, and replaced with your price.

There are a lot of other minor points as well (such as you need to change your currency convention from "amount $" to "$ amount" so "$24" not "24$," create a favicon, etc). However, hopefully this should be enough to get you started!

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cmdeal:
1. I will try AdWords - starting ASAP, and keep this thread fully updated with progress. Thank you for pointing this out.
2. Good point. I will go through or portfolio and maybe even make some new logos. What kind of *key indicators* would you say makes a logo look expensive?
3. I will think of something clever. The value definitely needs to be heightened. Any tips or input is HIGHLY VALUED!

Thank you very much for the input, lewis96 and cmdeal, it actually makes perfect sense that FB is the wrong channel when reading what you write. I might have been too narrow-minded on the whole «getting the fb strategy to stick».

Also I have played around with the idea of making this an affiliate based business, so other people can market it and earn commissions on CPL/sales. But I am not sure if this is a good niche for that.

Thanks again! I can not point out how valuable simple input like this is for me. My main strength and weakness can be my tunnel vision...
Later

Whops, nice catch!

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1. For channels, in addition to Search PPC, you need to use Odesk, Freelancer, etc. as a "free" media channel as a major customer acquisition channel. Create a profile on these sites, make a big deal of the fact that you are European, link back to your own site, include the portfolios, take the tests etc. The purchase intent of this channel will be even higher than Google PPC.

2. Look though sites like http://logofaves.com/most-favourited-logos/, http://www.logogalleria.com/ and find the ones that are the best reviewed in order to get ideas.

3. It is all about comparisons. Show what you are offering compared to something else which is either more expensive, worse quality etc.

As for your idea of turning it into an affiliate business ... maybe.

The problem you will run into is that this is not a very scalable business. Assuming that each logo takes about 1 hour to create, you are essentially looking at something that nets you $10-15 per person hour. If in your first year you are able to get it to 10 new jobs a day, this is still only $100-150 net you will clear a day, before any customer acquisition costs (advertising, marketing, affiliate commission), office overhead, etc.

So this will leave you with at MOST around 36,500 dollars a year to pay for all of this overhead, and finally, Norwegian taxes. Thus you can see why if you are now paying out $5-$10 per affiliate sale, then there will be nothing left over for you. You will be better off financially working at Narvesan or JaFs! for the year.

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If logo design is your area of expertise why not use sites like 99designs and logomyway as a promotion channel. It's a competitive area, but if you offer good quality it can bring good business.

Regarding your site and business model, you really need a site redesign (it looks very cheap) and with that pricing you'll have problems scaling.

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cmdeal hit it on the head, if you want conversions for this type of business goto adwords or bing ppc..

If you want to use FB, create a fan page/community and ultimately a mailing list and send them useful info/freebies with the occasional marketing offer..

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Great suggestions!

ppcskills: Can you please elaborate on what makes the design look cheap?

eqx

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equadox I painted you something:





These were some things I noticed.
Keep in mind if you are selling logos your website should look great too. If you can't design websites, then my suggestion would be to partner up with somebody who can and up-sell web design or logos. Because in many cases people need both. To go even further you could give customers an email newsletter with marketing tips and promote some affiliate offers.
Now instead of making $24 you can make several hundred per customer

Also there are too many links I could click on. Which is the most important? Which one should I click? Make me click this link or button.
Also you could definitely work on the copywriting.

In the end: Why?
Why should I buy from you? Why not somebody else?

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Wow, graham, thank you! Really appreciate that effort.
And the site looks like shit on big resolutions (I have only tested on a MBP) -- I really need to set some restrictions on larger resolutions. Or maybe scrap the whole design and go from scratch. I'm a long term engineer and it's been a few years since I did web design.

And UPDATE:

I GOT A SALE!. And it is actually from FB Ads. Some small business sent me a message in the inbox on the Facebook Page, asking a few questions, I quickly replied and minutes later the order ticked in. The logos has been delivered and the customer is very happy :-)
(I have also gotten a request through the «customer support form» from a US based company wondering if I have some reseller pricing.)

What does this show?
a) The market is definitely there
b) the business model works

Further steps to be taken:

1 - Fix web page - make it look less shitty
2 - Further optimize PPC campaigns
3 - Set up a better strategy for the FB page and posting. Maybe outsource to somebody who actually likes doing this...

I have a small AdWords test ad up and running:


I run it strictly on exact match keywords phrases like "cheap logo design" which I think will yield a very high CTR. I have had 6 expensive clicks so far (about $1.9), no sales, so I definitely need to do more testing and optimization here. Maybe dedicated landing pages?

Note to self - check out this one from Fiverr:
http://go.fiverr.com/logo/ - I really like it, and I think it is probably really effective. No fuzz and no distractions. Will take some inspiration from this one.

The potential for this business is not huge, but it can be a great side income when the potential has been maximized. The competition and the fact that orders have already been made confirms this. The best part is that it is almost fully automated, so I won't have to lift a finger once the real orders starts ticking in...

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Thanks, cmdeal. Yep, and it came surprisingly fast.
Time to scale up. I have high hopes for AdWords as well, seeing how I can get SUPER targeted traffic.

The landing page needs to be way more solid though, and I will work on it this weekend.
Shout out if you have any comments or tips! I will be more to happy to share what works and what doesn't as we go along!

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Great equadox, congratulations.
The fiver site with this price really wants me to order a logo, even if I don't need one. ;D

If you get enough visits, I would do A/B Testing and if you didn't do it already you might look for more inspiration on https://blog.kissmetrics.com/ or http://visualwebsiteoptimizer.com/split-testing-blog/

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Thank you graham! It motivates to go on! Also thanks for the links, I will consume those resources like a predator.

Great, but elaboration is king, share with all of us -- what makes you want to order a logo? Why do you feel compelled to do so? What really STANDS out on that Fiverr-page in YOUR eyes? Is it only the price?

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I have another conversion - this time from AdWords!
Total $19.37 spent on AdWords and I have one sale worth of $24.

Some stats:

9/clicks
4.11%/CTR
219/impr
$19.37/total spent
$2.20/avg CPC. The competition is tight, time to optimize and start some split testing. I also want to find some unique angles so I can get higher ROI

I know these numbers are statistically LOW (with only 9 clicks), but it confirms both the market and business idea (and most importantly it motivates me).

AdWords: 4.6% profit

I have limited the total FB campaign budget to around $10/day and removed most click to web page campaigns, basically just to have a small but steady build of likes.
Have one campaign running that is highly targeted and gives me clicks for ~$.20
I really do not care too much about FB for now, but as I got one sale from the FB page I figure it is nice to keep the appearance up.

Have also started to test manual CPC bidding in AdWords to see if I can get cheaper clicks.

I am going to redesign the whole web page and get in touch with some pro copywriters (hit me up if you wanna help or know someone with relevant experience)

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CPC is way too high. You will need to build out a much more robust campaign landscape.

Essentially in PPC you are trying to arbitrage cost and purchase intent, so you are trying to find those keyword combinations that have the highest propensity to convert at the lowest price.

• Usually they are not the ones you'd expect, and for you, they would typically be medium to longer tail keywords.
  
• By having sites and campaigns in French, German, Swedish, etc, you will be able to target much cheaper clicks.
  
• You can also brand bid in most countries, so you would want to bid on terms that people who are already looking in the market may bid for, e.g. "logomaker", "99 designs logo"
  
• Your landing pages MUST match your ad. So if you are bidding for "99 designs logo", you need to put in the ad snippet something like "3 reasons NOT to use 99 designs for logos", make that go to www.approvedlogo.com/Cheaper-than-99Designs or something like that AND on your landing page, give them 3 reasons why your service is better with a clear call to action.
  
• Once you start getting data, start ruthlessly optimising, pruning, and expanding your winners.

This is quite a bit of work, but it pays off. (For example, at any given time, we are managing between 1.5 - 3 million keyword combinations on our campaigns.)

Finally, I am not sure you are calculating profit margin correctly.

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That post right there is exactly why I signed up for STM, cmdeal! Thanks a bunch for giving me a push in the right direction and I LOVE the idea about kicking the competition in the face ala «cheaper than 99 designs». Will def experiment and think on some creative angles here--so much nicer than the generic "cheap logo design"

ALSO I have another sale for $35 in the door -- directly from a FB Ad Page Click from one of the highly targeted campaigns with a simple budget of $5/day. Maybe I shouldn't completely dismiss FB from my strategy, as I have gotten 85% (2/3 lol) of the sales from it.

I'm in the process of spinning up some AM projects to go along with the entrepreneurial spirit. Tons of stuff to learn and test

Anyway first priority with the logo business is getting up a new and better web page.
- Make CTA and payment path much simpler
- More social proof
It converts now, albeit not being very profitable, so that is all the motivation in the world.

Then find new angles and USPs and launch campaigns like crazy

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It may be worth use Tweetdeck to monitor certain hashtags and competitors.

Get in touch with with people directly and grow your social channels.

Check out startup forums, reddits and other places and get in touch with businesses there, its free and you can be build a report on each target platform. Just because people have a banner doesn't mean they are happy with it!

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I wouldn't completely dismiss Facebook!

I would run a couple campaigns focusing on targeting different type of people.
1. Local small businesses
2. People who are fans of 99designs etc
3. Certain niches of small businesses (research 99designs to see which type of businesses buy most)
etc!

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That's awesome. At the end of the day, data is king. If it works, that is all that matters!

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