[Facebook] Dating 40+ (CPA/PeerFly) (53)
Hello
Intro:
I want to make profit from an dating offer from peerfly. The payout is $5 and I get money on profile creation (I guess DOI incl. filling in some fields).
Demographic:
US, Male, 40 - 50, Single
Target: Precise interests like flirting, dating, etc.
What I did previously:
1. I was direct linking to 5 different offer and after 100 clicks I wanted to see which of the offer has had the best performance. I picked it and continued from there on.
2. I was creating a basic landing page and tested 5 different headlines in order to learn about my demographic. My goal was only to find out what this demographics exactly want (I couldnt find a lot of information in forums about it). I created the headlines based on different thought sequences, like: 1) they want a younger girlfriend, 2) they want to find a soulmate & love again, 3) they're just looking for damn hot women, etc. => I was finding a winning variation
3. I was taking the best landing page and tested it using different call-to-action button colors, then:
I added on all some kind of urgency using a countdown timer below the cta button.
Ads: I was creating 4 campaigns and tested different images. Each campaign had 3 ads.
Results: I was losing money. Per Conversion ($5) I was paying like $10 - $20.
Status Quo - Stats ;-):
I hope we're all here to learn more and therefore I hope nobody does just copy my losing campaign but try to apply it to your own campaigns. Thanks ;-)
- Screenshot of my CPVLab Stats - Ads - Click Here
- Screenshot of my CPVLab Stats - Landing Pages - Click Here (please ignore the pictures lander)
My current landing page (pushy):
(I'm showing only the section I've modified and not the entire page)
- Landing page - Click here (Screenshot)
Obstacles I faced:
1. I have some ads that seem to be profitable and they are sometimes converting very great (conversion rate 20%) but then for a day I'm getting clicks and nothing happens. No Conversions at all!
2. The Click through rate of my landing pages seem to be really bad
3. I dont know what I could optimize further on my landing pages
What I am trying next:
I just created age groups like 40-43, 43-46, 46-50 and I hope I'll find more helpful information.
Do you have any suggestions? What should I do better? Whats my sticking point?
Thanks a lot,
SwissFactor
Looks like you've got a good idea of the basics, and you've got a solid spend and a good basic approach.
Some things immediately leap out to me as things to try:
1) Join some more affiliate networks. The more networks you have access to the more chance you have of finding a winning offer. Even the same offer will often convert completely differently across different networks.
(In addition, there have been a few not-very-complimentary threads about PeerFly in the past: may be worth searching.)
2) Split-test more offers, or split-test the same offer across more networks. This alone could put you into profit.
3) Test more landing pages! You've jumped straight from angle testing (very good idea) to testing tiny details like CTA colour. Try split-testing different lander layouts, and in particular different images and image layouts.
4) Try targeting niche interests that aren't directly related to dating. For example, try targeting people who are into climbing, say, and then sell them on meeting girls who are also into climbing.
Common interests are a powerful weapon.
There's tons still to test here: let us know how you get on!
Awesome screenshots and stats. You have the right mentality. Even though you're being transparent and risk the chance of copying, they can't copy your campaign exactly without the entire funnel.
Looking at C02-02.. it got 7 conversions? You might want to analyze why that's working vs the other creatives and create more tests based on it
Same with "YB v2 - pushy - v3", it outperformed the other LPs, so figure out the elements that are working and split test more.
It's looking good man! Keep testing and keep us updated on your progress!
Solid tips from Caurmen and Jasper hit it on the head. You found a creative that got you 7 conversions and a lander that also got you 8 conversions, so you are doing it right. It just takes time/$$$ before you have 10 creatives instead of 1 doing the heavy work.
Only thing I would add is to set a budget for this campaign.. ie $1000 and don't move to the next awesome traffic source/offer before you have a system that YOU create for yourself on working on your campaigns.
Hey ;-)
Holy shit, thanks a lot for your comments and your advices. I really appreciate it. I was on another paid forum and it took ages to get an answer ;-) I'm impressed.
@caurmen:
1) I have joined Peerfly, AboveAllOffers, RevenueAds (They have never replied to my question and I dont think I'm getting the $90 I've earned on there), AdSimilis, ProfitKingsMedia - By the load of these offers etc. I have no idea what to pick =) Tho, I have tested 5 different offer 3 from Peerfly and 2 from others.
=> FindSinglesOnly, Mature Only 40+, MatureSinglesClick, FortyPlusSingles, Match.com Dating after 100 clicks to each offer I've picked the one with the best ROI.
Where did you read that peerfly isnt a good network? I have searched the forum but couldnt find anything bad about peerfly.
2) Should I even test more, even at this stage? I already tested 5 offers
3) Sure I will do it, I test more landing pages, more ads and cut everything with a negative ROI after 100 clicks
4) I'm already going niched and not broadly. Let's see if I need to dig further down or if that's already okay.
@JasperP:
Thanks, that's a good idea. C02-02 was a bit of a strange ad... it has worked on day 1 very well but on the following days it was burning my budget only.
I had to cut it...
@paulis1:
Thanks for the advices. I will not switch traffic sources until I master it. Promised ;-)
Day 2:
I have found after 150 clicks on each age group that two groups were going a lot better than the third age group. I've cut it because I will still get enough traffic
to test. Also I've added a landing page so I can rotate it in... I decided to create a complete new layout. I'm testing currently the original (pushy) against the treatment.
I've added a supporting column on the right which has a quality "satisfaction guaranteed" seal and some reasons why MYANGLE-Men are high in demand.
After some google research I've found some interesting benefits for that Angle. Let's see how it does work out.
I dont yet have an idea for a 3rd layout style. But hopefully I'll get some by tomorrow.
Results for today?
Spent: $ 54.82
Earned: $ 25
Loss: $ 29.82
(But hey, I could narrow it down so I'm sure I will be soon break even)
Have a great day & thanks for reading,
SwissFactor
1) http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...hlight=peerfly was the most recent one I remember, although by no means the only one I've seen.
2) OK, if you've tested 5 already (did you test to statistical significance?) then you're probably good to go. However, if you can find the same offer on other networks ( see the STM Affiliate Network Skype Directory ) try split-testing it across different networks to see which gives you the highest CVR.
Looking good!
Day 3:
I will see how it goes with PeerFly. =) Yeah the test was sort of significant.
i've sent to each offer about 100 - 120 clicks (direct linking).
FB had a sucky today and decided to decline all my new ads.
I was reading their error messages, googled and researched and found a way to
get my ads still through.
It seems the entire approval process is somehow semi-automatic. Or they're dumb.
I will check how it's going and if it doesnt work well I have to go to POF (again :-)).
What did I do today?
1. I cut all the bad ads (I've seen that my ads somehow went from 0.148% CTR to 0.050%, I used the same headline for about 2 months now. I just used a new headline for the next batch of ads)
2. I added about 15 new ads
I am still testing the new lp.
Stats til now:
Spent: $ 31.82
Earned: $ 30.00
Loss: $1.82
Thanks for reading,
swissfactor
Originally Posted by swissfactor
Day 4:
Thanks for your motivation ;-)
I am testing ads and new landing page variations:
Current stats:
Spent: $ 65.36
Earned: $ 50.00
Loss: $ 15.36
I'm positive I can turn it into profit as soon as possible. I kind of know the metrics and what landing pages are possible. I just want to test a new landing page option. The click through rate is great but they dont convert (yet). :-)
Thanks for reading,
SwissFactor
Day 5:
I added 16 new ads yesterday and 2 landing page variations. I could find out that some of the new ads & lander variations are converting better. I cut the bad ads & landers.
I also paused the ads that were close to break even or slightly profitable in order to give the other ads in my fb campaign a chance ;-)
Current stats:
Spent: $ 52.48
Earned: $ 50.00
Loss: $ 2.48
Yesterday: 320 clicks -> $ 50.00
Today: 225 clicks -> $ 50.00
What I will be doing next?
1. Wait for a day to see whats the current results.
2. I will analyze all my splittests (ads & landingpages), results etc and write a "customer avatar" report about my demographics. I will note down what I've learned and what has worked well, what didnt work well and add a section which has further ideas which I could explore
3. Adding new ads
4. Adding a new similar angle and check if it still will work
5. Scraping & finding new images for the ads
See you tomorrow & thanks for reading. Please correct me if any of the above steps is not correct or could be improved ;-)
SwissFactor
Looks good!
I'd suggest writing several "customer avatars" rather than just one, if the data supports that. Often you'll find more than one group is interested in your ads. However, this is an excellent idea!
Day 6
@caurmen: Thanks for your feedback. I will start with one avatar and then extend it or create a second one if it doesnt fit to one person.
I lost today $ 10 and had 3 conversions only. The CPC suggested bid of facebook skyrocket and therefore I didnt get a lot of traffic. I've taken my 3 best ads and created 3 campaigns with 15 ads (duplicated each ad 5 times). I need to find a solution to lower my bids. My CTR is usually >= 0.100 because the other ones I always cut unless they're profitable for me.
Do you have any ideas how to lower my CPC bids? My demo audience has a reach of 120,000 - Male, US, Single, interested in female, 40 - 50. I tend to adjust the bids after 10 hours. When my suggested bid range is 0.43 - 0.80 then I'm usually bidding 0.48 (lower suggested bid plus some random value between 4 and 10).
I've taken a look at my previous campaign which has worked great for me. The payout was $ 7.50 and the bid prices were between 0.12 - 0.16. My current offer pays $5 and the bid prices are 0.29 - 0.48. I dont have to tell you that this isnt going to work. The Conversion rate between my previous campaign and the current campaign is the about the same. I was having a CR of 3% and I'm having a CR of 4% now (calculated everything, ad to offer including landing pages...) I can test whatever I want to test... I can't get it any higher.... if someone could help me and taking a look at my landers and give me suggestions then I'd appreciate it highly :-)
Thanks a lot!
Andreas (aka SwissFactor)
You may be paying the Q4 tax here: ad costs going up across the board as Christmas approaches.
One thing that may be worth doing, following Gozzo's tests a while back, is leaving your bids alone for 24-48 hours after you set your campaign up. Facebook seems to be penalising early bid changes these days. See http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...ivery-Problems
Hey Caurman,
Great advice. Thanks! I already connected with Gozzo and I will read his posts again. I also started to advertise to UK because the bids are about 0.20 - 0.50 cheaper. Have a great day I'll post later how it is going. First I need all my new creations to get approved ;-)
Day 7
I'm kind of back to square 1... nothing seems to work and I'm very much clueless again. My trying iteration failed again at the fifth time. Maybe someone has an idea what I'm doing wrong and can give me some tips. Thanks a lot
My LP stats:
My creative stats:
Thanks a lot for your help.
SwissFactor
PS: I had today 164 clicks and no single conversion. I just paused my campaigns. Need to learn more first.
OK, first up - you're going to need more data. Only one of those LPs has had enough clicks to make it anywhere near statistically significant. I know it's painful to spend money when you're losing it sometimes, but you've gotta spend it to make it.
If you want to PM me your landing page designs for suggestions, btw, go for it - or if you're feeling brave, just post 'em here!
You also need more data on your ads. How many impressions have each of those ads had, and what are their CTRs?
I'm assuming you've already split-tested offers and forty plus singles is the best one so far?
Also, how closely tied are your creatives and LPs? What i mean by this is if you're saying "blondes" on your creative, are you saying "blondes" on the LP?
If your angles are too spread out, they may not play nice together when you take the best creatives/lps and put them together.
For example, if you have:
-Creatives for "blondes", "milfs", and "asians"
-LPs for "blondes", "milfs" and "asians"
Let's say that the best performers were "blondes" for the creative and "asians" for the LPs.
If your path looks like: "blonde" creative >> "asian" creative >> offer
Then this may not be profitable since they don't necessarily make sense together.
This is an extreme example, but it's illustrating a point that if your angles aren't streamlined, the conversion rates may not increase.
Hey thanks for the info. I will try that :-)
I've splittested new offers again. My best direct linking conversion rate is 2.8% - is that something I can work with or should I dump the offers? Maybe it would require me to enter new niches. Thanks for your help.
Buddy those stats are misleading. Your CPC's at 0.19 across the board? I think not. Do this http://stmforum.com/forum/showthread...ck-ass-reports and revisit your stats. You might be taking decisions on wrong data 
fabian, thanks a lot! This one is huge.
Hey guys,
I have figured out that my previous offer was the best one regarding Conversion rate.
I will create 4 headlines + ad copies and then create per ad copy 2 campaigns (each campaign has 4 ads).
My hope is to reduce the curiousity clicks and rather get people clicking who are interested in the offer seriously. I have no idea if that works out but I will try it.
I am saying like "Hairy & Single?" and I dont mention a dating site. Maybe mentioning dating site will help my conversion rates.
thanks for reading
That's some sensible thinking. Sounds like you might be right - curiosity clickers may be a problem.
Let us know how it goes!
Ok I continued yesterday. I needed a break because I was too focused on making money... my mind wasnt able to think in a creative way...
I saw money only... and I was too emotional. The break was needed in order to start decide about the stats logically again.
When I was starting the ads yesterday I felt detached which is necessary to analyse everything logically...
I have some good news and some bad news..
Good news first, ok? I've created 3 different ad copies and I rotated all the landing pages that were somehow "okay". (the best ones).
The good news is that I already see that 1 headline is clearly better. 4 conversions, the other ones dont have a single conversion.
The bad news is that the 4 conversions were divided into several landing pages:
Lander A: 1 conv
Lander B: 1 conv
Lander C: 1 conv
etc.
How the heck am I supposed to find a winning landing page? I'm going to tell my visitors that they should decide finally .... but I have to wait for 100 - 200 clicks
per ad copy variation anyway.
Now the best part. I'm losing $ 15 currently... but I'd be 50% in profit if I'd run the winning ad copy online. Let's see how it goes.
Right now you dont have much data to pick a winning lp. Keep running them until u have enough statistical significance to clearly weed out the bad ones..
Also check your CR
Thanks for your help.
I have figured out that the one headline was converting the first day only and the second I didnt get any conversions at all :-(. I stopped the traffic to the offer for a while and continued and in the beginning the amount of conversions always go up but then it conversion rate fades down to 2%... I cannot explain the reason of this behaviour.
I decided to rerun all the ads (different headlines) and throw in 8 landing pages.
There are two possibilities:
1) My mistake is that I shouldnt test for 1 day only even if the clicks are >= 100 (counting landing page clicks)
or
2) the offer is somehow ignoring my leads.
What do you think? I'm kind of clueless.... This is what I mean by "winning headline":
I have tested 5 headlines only... based on the experience/results of the second day should I test even more headlines?
Thanks for your help ;-)
That kind of variation is pretty normal. I wouldn't worry about one day of low conversions - worry if it's 3 or more days in a row.
Sometimes conversions just suck randomly for a day or so.
Hey guys,
my internet didnt work for the past days so I couldnt optimize anything but I had to leave the campaigns running which was actually not bad.
Click here to see the current stats
I'm doing a quality check now in order to see if I can scale... maybe it would have been better to wait to ask until I'm earned back what I've lost.
By asking too early I might have the risk of getting kicked off the offer. What do you think?
And, what do you think of my stats?
Thanks,
SwissFactor
I have to add something... since I have access to internet again....
the last few hours I was checking my stats every 5 minutes and I nearly paused the ads and I was totally angry... then I was going to the toilet and returned... within short period of time I've seen this:
I was shocked....
My lessons learned:
- Don't check stats every 5 minutes
- Don't optimize every few hours or few minutes but do it on a defined day time only.
Originally Posted by swissfactor
Both of those lessons learned are extremely valuable.
Checking stats and optimising is a lot like flying a plane. It's very easy to over-correct every last little bump and twitch, but if you do that at best you'll end up wallowing around in the sky, and at worst you can over-correct into a spin or a crash. The best thing to do is to ignore small bumps and twitches, and only react if there's something big and consistent happening.
Your stats are looking good: you're nearly at statistical significance on your LPs, with v1 pulling ahead from the stats you posted, and you've got some promising creatives. Keep running, trust the process, and get to statistical significance, and I think you'll see a winner soon-ish.
Thanks for your answer.
I'm back to square one... I dont know why but since yesterday nothing seems to convert. The overall LP CTR & CR dropped dramatically. I have no clue how this could happen ... confused again & need to think in order to find a new strategy. 
PS: It was working the entire week very well...
hey guys
The facebook CPC are totally high. My CTR is lower than usually. Like 0.088% they used to be like >= 0.100%. I'm wondering if I should stop fb and continue on POF during the xmas. What do you think?
Fb ctr is getting higher this time of year.. I know some advertisers are waiting until the new yr.. Depends on your vertical too I guess
Good idea. I will stop the campaigns because if I had the old CPC then I d be profitable :-).
I think I can make POF work because of my custom tools and the knowledge of fb marketing.
Is there a reason why its a bad idea to switch to POF during christmas?
I'd stick with the traffic source you've started with for now. POF and FB aren't as similar as they may appear, and you'll see both of them get a bit harder around Christmas.
It's only 15 days to XMas now, just stick out the pre-Christmas ad price madness and keep learning FB!
Final shutdown - FortyPlusSingles has kicked me out.
Bad that I was optimizing the entire funnel and I was break even.
I'm not yet sure how I will continue since my campaign got killed ;-)
I have here an offer that pays 3 USD. Lot less than I had. Should I still try it with CPC like 0.24 to 0.54??? Thanks :-) I kind of have the idea of the higher the payout the better and the limited belief of "Low payouts NEVER will be profitable or they have a low ROI". Thanks :-)
Ugh, that sucks! I did a survey a while ago and the absolute #1 hate of most affiliates was the "nearly optimised, kicked off offer" moment.
You may be able to find the offer on another network and continue - although make sure to ask about why you were kicked off first. Also worth asking if there's anything you could do to improve quality and get back on the offer.
And in the meantime, launch more campaigns! Try different stuff, and try more stuff!
You'll get there!
No there's no point in getting that offer back. The reason is simple: "Mate1 is a huge pain".
I've asked several affiliate managers from different networks. And besides, I asked to check for the traffic and they replied the quality is okay & they would like to see more leads!!!
Therefore I'd advise you all to stay away from any mate1 related offers. Believe me,... it's not worth the pain afterwards!
Well for me... I don't give up. Since this summer I was struggled but through hard work I managed to make 3 offers work. If I reach the goal of optimizing my "optimizing duration" then I'm happy for this year. ;-)
PS: Sorry for the big fonts and stuff but it should be considered as a warning. If here's a mate1 guy then he should pm me and explain why they're so damn inconsistent.
Even if it seems that everything is going down I'm happy to announce that I got back the 0.10 - 0.15 clicks and my CTR raised from 0.088% to => 0.200%. Yay!!! *happy*
PS: I could punch myself in the face for being too lazy to NOT test every idea I ever had... even if 99% failed miserably!
You have to just keep it going, always be testing new ads. Sometimes FB throws you a curveball, I have had campaigns that where 20% CTR running for days then all of a sudden it falls off a cliff at like 1%.
Hey guys,
I was really pissed that I got kicked out and I didnt have a clue how to continue for a while. I was sitting back and thought about how I could continue and therefore decided to do something completely different than I did before. I picked an offer that pays me $3 per conversion only. I didnt think this would work ...
Note to fabien: No I couldnt yet figure out how this bid stuff works ;-)
I will disable all the red marked ads and adjust the "green" ones, I will analyze the green ones and scale until I earn daily $ 50.
See you later.
SwissFactor
Dude, you are making decisions on wrong data (apart from not being statically significant it seems). If you need help setting up CPVLab hit me up in Skype (fabiandesimone).
Now, just to show you something: go to FB and find out the real CPC of ADs:
C6-02
C8-01
C5-02
An calculate ROI by hand. You might get a surprise.
Thanks Fabian, I've sent you a request ;-)
The day just started but I'm $ 5 profit now. The affiliate manager has told me I need to send about 30 - 40 more leads for a quality check.
My question is what should I do next?
The margins are a bit lower because the payout is only $3 but I've figured out it's for me easier to "restart". I will probably focus on these type of offers until I have a nice basic cashflow which will help me support building campaigns for bigger payout offers.
I've thought about it and came to following suggestions:
a) Earning until I get a "accepted" or "declined". Optimizing & learning in the meantime (aka reading the forum threads here)
b) Scaling the current campaign (wouldn't make sense to me until i know I'm ready to go further)
c) Taking another offer and optimize it until the profit point is reached again.
Based on my logic I would go for a) & c)
Thanks for your suggestions.
SwissFactor
I'd recommend a) and c) also. If you can scale the current campaign without reducing your ROI that's worth doing too, just so you get your quality check faster, but probably not worth putting much time into until you're sure you're not about to get booted or told you need better quality.
I just want to let you guys know that I'm still alive... I was segmenting my demographic and trying to figure out how to rip some fat off and I'm also waiting for the results of the quality check.
Hey guys,
Facebook didnt ban me but they just declined all my ads... because all of my ads are dating ones: "Your ad wasn't approved because ads for dating sites and apps are only allowed from approved advertisers at this time." this means I need to look for something else. I'm not sure if I should go to traffic junkie or if I should go to POF again. What do you think? What would you suggest me?
Thanks
After talking to Charles Ngo I decided to switch over to POF now. Should I create a new follow along or can you rename the thread? Thanks
Probably best to create a new follow along - I'll look out for it!
IM not sure the volume you where doing or your ad spend but have you tried to either contact Facebook about getting white listed or see if you can go direct with your offer.
Probably worth the phone calls to see if you are able to pull it off.
Hey,
Happy New Year.
I was testing an angle on POF and the stats are pretty funny. I get no impressions & clicks but it seems to workout somehow:
Maybe I need to broaden it a bit more ;-)
PS: I know the CTR is shitty but I don't care about CTR as long as the Profit/Loss is alright.
Yep, looks like you could do with some more volume there What are your current targeting options?
Sent you a pm 
After Tom has told me that small banners are more effective I have created one (identical to the other type) and the result is impressive:
The ad below is identical to the one the other end of the arrow points to. the first click was in fact a conversion ;-) The other ones are just splittests...
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