Are most mobile offers created to rip people off? (22)
I'm confused about mobile offers. Most networks mostly have offers such as antivirus, battery optimizer, sweepstakes or something like that. I feel like all of these offers are offers that were created only to rip people off.
How do offers such as download antivirus work? I'm talking about antivirus offers outside of Google Play or iTunes, something like this offer: http://m1.co.yurmobile.com/wap/970/. International landing pages usually don't even make sense (they are badly translated and most visitors should instantly smell that something is fishy) and when people subscribe, small print indicates that they're going to receive up to 7 text messages a week and have to pay for each one a lot of money. What do these messages contain? Do they contain apps/games (something useful) or are they promotional? Why even promote these offers as an antivirus/battery optimizer offer when it probably doesn't even work for most feature phones and the product isn't an antivirus/battery optimizer but these text messages? Is there any value for the end user?
What offers besides for app installs on Google Play/iTunes are legit? Are games subscription offers such as BinBit legit or do they also work in the same way? I'm trying to avoid promoting useless things that prey on people who don't have a habit of reading small print. I don't want to make money off ripping people off and it seems like most mobile offers are morally questionable.
Moral discussion in 3,2,1... *get's popcorn
Joking aside, I'm no expert but yeah, PIN Submits seem like 99% rip offs in the sense that you get what you wanted and then some (most of what you did not want!). And of course is based on people not reading the fine print.
But if you are holding tight to that, you might want to re-consider dating, adult, etc (what do you think happens to that data after?) and move to a CPS of physical products (stay away from diet as I'm pretty sure those pills don't work as advertise).
Anyway, I think in the end this is why this industry has a bad rep, most offers seem shady (and probably are).
"Unfortunately" ethics are hugely important for me and that was always my "weakness" in Internet marketing in the sense that I only promoted things that aren't rip-offs. I promoted some mobile adult offers but decided to stop doing it because it just didn't feel right to spend hours creating porn banners, landers etc. Yeah, CPS does sound much better (especially promoting products in which I believe) but then again I would have to switch my focus from mobile to Web and I'm not sure if it's a good idea to jump from one thing to another. I'll have to reconsider if that's the case with most mobile offers...
The way I look at it is I want make a lot of money online (even sometimes pushing somewhat questionable offers) then invest this "dirty" money into a legit business that will provide lots of value to others.
At the end of the day this industry has better karma then many of other lucrative industries. Look at other big money industries. Big oil and gas destroys the planet, pharmaceuticals/medical industry has everybody hopped up on drugs, food industry (McDonalds, KFC ect.) has people eating shit that kills them and gives you cancer, Gold and mining industry leaves steaming toxic craters in its wake, clothing industry is built on third world labor. Same with electronics, people build ipods in Foxxconn for 2 dollars an hour in massive plants where the suicide rate is very high. Smart phone batteries are dug out of Africa conflict minerals. Politics tells lies to everybody and does inside trading. The military industrial complex blows up cities just to rebuild them with Halliburton. Stock market traders and bankers crash entire economies with risky investments and then get bailed out.
Getting someone to sign up to a "adult dating" site that might be filled with fake users and bots is really not that big a deal in the large scheme of things. They might get e-mail spammed but they don't have any obligation to pay. That being said there's still a ton of legit ways to make money online while still being moral just might not be as easy as pushing the "magic pill" that everyone is looking for.
Thanks clubdrock for your honest opinion. I understand your point of view but I don't agree with it (particularly with "it's not that big of a deal" line of thinking). However, I'm not here to argue. I just want to find out what other people think, and your post is certainly thought-provoking.
here's my take on it...
Does your bank rip you off by offering you 2% while its selling your money at 20% ?
Is your mobile phone company ripping you off by having 200% profit margins ?
Is McDonald's ripping you off by selling you food that is proven to cause heart disease ?
Is Perrier ripping you off by selling your factory water that you think comes from a glacier in the Alpes ?
You can go on and on and on. Its a matter of perception. If they are "really" ripping people off then the FTC will take care of them quite swiftly. We've all seen it in this industry.
If you want to take a moral standpoint on what you promote then you will run into some serious issues.
I can tell you that every industry has moral dilemmas. I worked in the building industry for 10 years and I can assure you that there are many more "scammers" there than with online marketing. I am sure that people working in finance or any other industry will tell you the same. There are always people pushing things to the max.
I had a friend basically end up hating all of advertising went he went down this path.
I've actually wanted to start very similar thread not a long ago asking people about their views on ethics/morals when it comes to AM. I don't remember seeing it discussed here very often, if ever hehe!
Anyway it's kinda strange as I could tell that some people here are pretty intelligent and obviously know that what they do is shady as fuck. 90% of the offers in your typical affiliate network is pretty scammy(not just mobile) in my book and the ones that aren't probably won't get to you to stacking that money on the next level 
So I would love to hear some opinions of the guys that are doing big numbers on how they see it.
PS. My personal view is kinda similar to clubrock's, he gave some very good examples on how the world works today imo. It's pretty fucked up, no doubt. Also maybe you should rethink if you are in the right business if you have strong morals, because what the big part of marketing/advertising industry is doing is pretty much making people to buy stuff they don't really need (imo) and AM is just pushing this to the next level thanks to internet and technology(testing/tracking etc.)
@deondup
First and foremost, thank you for sharing your opinion. Please don't regard my thread or reply as a personal attack on people who promote such offers, I only want to get to know opinions of fellow stackers.
I don't think your examples are the same as misleading mobile offers. No company is ripping you off if they have huge profit margins nor is McDonald's ripping you off by selling fast food. There's a huge difference between buying something voluntarily and understanding all consequences (like fast food at McDonald's - all people know that it's bad for them but they decide to eat it anyway - it's their choice and they fully understand what they're going to get) and subscribing to a service that states its not-so-attractive terms in the fine print and uses misleading marketing to sell it (most people who subscribe probably don't know that they aren't going to get any antivirus or that they will be charged exorbitant fees for every text message). If we were to follow your train of thought do you think that payday loans are okay?
As for FTC (or any governmental agency for that matter), I don't think they are a good moral determinant.
I understand what you want to say but I can't agree with you because I believe there's a huge difference between aforementioned offers and your examples. Anyway, thanks for your take on this issue!
@mdmfx
Originally Posted by mdmfx
I think promoting these offers is doing people a favor. The people who sign up for a lot of these scammy offers are just looking for some magic pill, get rich quick solution, or some creepy old guy who thinks he's going to sleep with some hot 18 year old. They get exactly what's coming to them. I have promoted pin submits, clickbank ebooks, dating / adult cpls, etc., and the more legitimate offers are targeted to more legitimate users while the scammier stuff is targeted to dumber / shadier people in my opinion. My more legitimate offers have a real back end providing a real service with real people, and I target them to what I consider quality individuals, whereas the scammier stuff, I target to scum. It all works out. (I do draw my moral line at payday loans / biz opp stuff targeted to single moms, that stuff is essentially predatory lending in my book and can cause serious harm to people who are down and out on their luck - I understand not everyone sees this distinction and that's fine, everyone's moral compass gets blinded by money to a certain extent)
Scrutinize almost any industry / job closely enough and you will find undesirable aspects. You can nitpick all you want, and argue that McDonalds is not scummy (you'd be wrong on multiple levels, both poisonous food and treating / paying their workers horribly). You seem to have a somewhat arbitrary moral compass which is totally fine, everyone's is going to be different. If you think that McDonalds is causing less harm to the world at large than a dating offer, you might want to re-evaluate the way you see the world. I understand no one is forcing people to buy McDonalds, but no one is forcing them to sign up for a dating / adult dating site. In fact, even if they don't get to hook up with a girl, half the thrill for them is the chase, playing with the idea of an affair or whatever.
Also, a significant number of successful people / companies have histories filled with litigation, fraud, backstabbing, etc. How about Monsanto / genetically modified food, and how the average person can't afford to eat non genetically modified food. How about government corruption. How about the government / members of the government profiting off of wars and killing people. How about fraudulent Charities / Churches. I encourage you to let me know when you find a clean industry. Sure you can find some innocent people at the bottom, but let me know when you find someone making big bucks who has never done anything shady. Affiliate marketing barely makes a blip on the map of unethical.
This feels like I'm having a conversation with my 12 year old son telling him that the world isn't all sunshine and daisies.
**edit: I re-read my post and it comes across as a little condescending and childish so I apologize for that aspect of it, I just get frustrated when people try to nitpick the morality of this industry compared to other areas of life. Your question is very legitimate and I think it sparks an interesting discussion**
OP, I would recommend you to make your own product. Something of value in any field you're an expert on.
Your issue is with people paying for something that's not entirely transparent up front. In that case my examples are relevant. Try getting out of your mobile phone contract and you will see how much of the fine print you missed. All these "deceptive" mobile offers have fine print that explain exactly what's going on. If the issue is with voluntarily buying something then the opposite is really stealing from people? which is criminal and should not be allowed anyway.
The simple answer is that if you have a moral issue with an offer, don't promote it.
This has been discussed a few times in the past and there's always a debate. Where do you draw the line though? because even the "cleanest" dating offer will fall into your category of "ripping people off" .
@keepitsimple
Interesting post. A brutally honest one, but that's what I like about it. As for McDonald's I didn't say they are/aren't a scummy company, I only said that they don't rip you off in a financial kind of way because you know you're paying for shit food. Anyway, I don't want to argue about this example (or anything else), I'm not into arguing online. I don't believe that you have to do something shady in order to become rich, but I agree with you that it's widespread.
@cosmeivan
I already tried with my own product but it isn't for me, at least not for now (maybe in the future when I'll have more experience). Creating a product isn't that difficult, the difficult part is to promote it, make money and constantly work on making it even better.
@deondup
Originally Posted by deondup
Let's be honest - you can rationalize anything. Most of the attempts here are simply attempts to justify what most would consider unethical behavior. You're naturally going to find reasons to justify things that benefit you...people do this all the time with politics, taxes, in court, etc.
I think deondup probably said it best, just promote whatever you are personally comfortable with.
In answer to your thread title.. yes mostly they are.
Unless you create your own product, you can't have control of the ethics behind it.
You'll probably find it very hard to make a long term success in mobile (or AM) if you can't get past this thinking..
My suggestion, if running your own product isn't for you.. would be to build a good website, that serves a purpose, with apps, data and solid information on a topic you enjoy. And learn how to monetize that properly.
You have full control, and the possibilities are endless..
Originally Posted by mstm
Ok reality check....huge dif eh?...
this is how Mickey d's markets their big mac
this is what you really get....
and you say there is a "huge" difference?
hmmmmmmmmmmmm
not really seeing it....
I think you need to step back and rethink these supposed "morals" .....and the fact you seem to be ok with promoting stuff that flat out kills people and marketed in a clearly deceptive way(as seen above)....yet not ok with a mobile offer that may cost someone $19.95
kinda a "huge" difference if you ask me....(I can't be the only one in this forum who sees it this way)
....seems to me you have some kinda disconnect somewhere...or only seeing what you want to see...
because at the end of the day....we all have a choice both in how we sell AND the people who buy, signup, play they have a choice too....
I am not holding a gun to someones head when they signup for a mobile offer, gamble at a casino, or chat with some fake girl, buy a diet pill.....
the one constant in life is we always have a choice, good, bad or indifferent....
In my opinion, ALL marketing has questionable morals and if you can't handle it, you should stay away from the industry as a whole.
Take Coca Cola / Pepsi for example... Yes, you voluntarily buy their drinks, but what is the real reason behind it? They advertise lifestyle, freedom, fun etc. but in the end, all you get is an overpriced can of sugared water that will slowly kill you
Another example... Green Peace will tell you that the money you donate will directly help a threatened species to survive or sth like that when in reality, a big chunk of that money will go into administrative overhead, some shady people profiting from it etc.
To make a point, most of the time marketing will drastically oversell what the customer will get and while stuff like "delivering value", "customer satisfaction" etc. may sound good in theory, it will always stay an industry that hypes shit up and in the end "underdelivers", may that be noticeable for the consumer or not.
It's not always a scam of course. But what is a scam anyway? People sign up for something and get subscribed. Most subscription offers have to notify the consumer about how and where to unsubscribe.
Obviously, people unsubscribe while others enjoy what they get and stay subscribed. The set up is to keep people subscribed and the only way to do that is to keep them somewhat happy.
When I see the unsubscribe rate of a dating offer that I promote.. it's higher than I would expect from a mature audience that went through an LP and a DOI. But I also see that the people that stay subscribed do interact with the dating site by buying credits for messaging other members or making phone calls.
While I'm pretty sure that this dating site is a scam similar to the mcD example pointed out... it clearly keeps some people happy and keeps them subscribed.
I unsubscribed from STM before 
Oh btw.. you could always point out the exact costs etc on your landing page before sending people over to the offer 
Man I just had a brain wave and turned up with a new angle to test.
Thanks!
It's far from impossible to find affiliate programs that offer a product of value.
I'm more familiar with the Web side of things than mobile, but on the Web there are plenty of affiliate programs for products that definitely provide value for people, from games to CPS to, yes, dating.
I'd strongly suspect that the same is true for mobile - other app installs or games, for example?
No one is forcing people to sign up for these things.
With that being said, I would never cross completely disgraceful immoral boundaries, but at the end of the day the product is out there and people are going to be buying into it whether you promote it or not. You're just the middle man.
You guys would be surprised by some of the diet stuff....... HCG, green coffee bean, rasberry ketones, etc. Most of them DO work, but it all depends on where you get your stuff from. I myself lost 35lbs on HCG and have kept off the weight. I have a friend of a friend who works at an HCG company and everyone there has lost weight. If you browse through the varies forums and amazon reviews for many of these products you can see that they do work for many.......
I like thinking in ethics this way: would you advertise it to yourself or to your son if he needed it?
If not, then you're probably being unethical. How you deal with it is up to you.
.
I'd not advertise "fuck a single mom tonight" to my son for him to signup to a dating site.
But for sure I'd "advertise" (or advice) him to join STM and make money, even if I needed to use a few "mental triggers" to break his natural human inertia (scarcity, social proof, etc).
A few best strategies to go ethical online (no I don't own any of these products):
* Using Product Launch Formula by Jeff Walker;
* Buiding your audience. (a good product on it is "Audience business masterclass");
* Promoting good CB products, good CPA offers (maybe games, good Mobile apps, etc).
Just understand that the marketing "tricks" are necessary to help people help themselves sometimes.
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