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Not getting paid by *##*$ Network. Cyprus banking debacle. (57)

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Today I requested my wire transfer confirmation from one of my aff networks, which for now will remain nameless, only to be told I would not be receiving my wire this week. After asking why, I was told they are having some issues with their Cyprus accounts. But I was assured I would receive my payment along with next weeks payment early next week.

Am I worried about this? Not really, but due to the huge amount of disrespect I have received from my AM on this issue as well as several others in the past I wanted to get this out and on the record.

How much money are we talking about? $4k this week. and about $35k since I started working with them in February. I guess it's not enough for them to treat their clients well. But apparently they don't appreciate my "demanding tone". Can you have a tone over skype chat? Demanding meaning asking to be paid on time as agreed and responding to emails in less than a week. Yes I am way out of line. I will keep this updated when I know more.

Please do not PM me asking what network it is I will not say right now.

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oh shit Sorry to hear man, this sucks!

Why would they have all their money there... idiots
Well, I hope you get paid and in case you're not that you will out those assholes so we can light their asses on fire ;o)

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Wow! That's absolutely crazy.
If its any consulation im sure that wont end well for them. I hope you get your money.

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I think that banks have been closed this past week in Cyprus, and will remain closed at least until Tuesday. They are dealing with some special circumstances. Still, there's no excuse for a network for not paying on time, and specially not treating their affiliates correctly.

I have a pretty good idea of what network is it, and I'm sure they will pay you eventually.

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I would stop sending them traffic immediately.

1) They could be lying about the Cyprus excuse simply because it's in the news right now so that it might sound plausible.
2) Even if your tone were demanding, it's not out of line. Sounds like they're playing the "Ryan Eagle" I'm-the-victim routine. "Why are you hating on poor little me?"

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STOP traffic IMMEDIATELY sean !

I've seen so many times people keeping on sending traffic to BS networks for months, that is crazy ! Cut everything and let them know you won't start back the traffic until you get PAID! Period.



Mehdi

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That's funny.... They giving You the "Ryan Eagle" angle thing....

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This is terrible news.

We must all be sure and ask each network we deal with if they bank in Cyprus or if the Cyprus situation effects them.

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deleted

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I always wonder why affiliates protect or hide their networks who have problems with payments.
Talking about problems with networks but not declaring their names. Even if it's just structural late payments.

"maybe they will pay me next week or month because they say so and then everything will be ok in the end."

From my offline business point of view, this is quite odd.

Business is business.. online or offline. You are a business and you supply to another business.
If I don't pay my suppliers on time I have to pay 2% extra. Actually, the percentage is already billed and if I pay in time I have to deduct that certain percentage from the total amount.

Fair deal in my opinion. It's your money but they receive the benefits of it since it's still in their account for the time being.


On the other hand, it often seems this online business hasn't matured yet and since the "Eagle angle" seems to have become an affiliate term: Stop traffic.


For the "demanding tone" part.. once again business is business and business often involves demanding tones. If you and the network can not have a serious discussion over money then there's a problem. I sometimes get the feeling that AMs are trying to become chat buddies and use the established relationship to loosen the ropes a bit. No problem if it comes from both ends but the problem is that the AM is just an extension of the advertiser and he's the one pulling the ropes in the end.

Ofcourse relationship between AM and Aff can be friendly but serious.

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The network is Click Dealer

I absolutely agree with everything you said. I think we tend to create chat slash personal relationships with our AMs. But in life as well as business, everything is about relationships and people do business with whom they like and trust. But when it comes to business, and someone screws up and doesn't do exactly what they said they would do I expect there to be consequences, apologies made, or some sort of compensation emotional or financial.

This is the second payment issue I have had out of the last three. Two payments ago of over $6k took two weeks to be delivered. They said magically that the wire would not go through but it was the same exact account I had used for the previous 8 wires. I gave them two alternate accounts. Then they deposited the payment in the initial account which was not working before. Then the next week they wired to one of my alternate accounts and made another mistake, after I specifically told my AM to wire it to my original account which is also setup in Has Offers.

This kind of stuff would not fly offline and if so not for long. If I had a network and one of my AMs spoke to a client the way I have been spoken to I would fire them on the spot the first time. As I told her, I am the client period. If a client of mine is difficult, rude, or insults me, I can always not work with them but at the end of the day I live by the philosophy that the customer is always right. And nothing I said was even close to rude or insulting.

Yes I have paused all traffic and am sending to Adsimilis. In my experience every payout I get from them is lower and they don't have a few of the high EPC offers for some of my internationals but I have no choice right now.

So we will see what happens, but it is important that stackers hear about my experience. Even if it costs me money, it definitely wouldn't be the first time I lost a lot of money doing what I felt was right.

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Maybe I am missing something, but if the network banks in Cyprus then what are they supposed to do? It's not like they can do anything about it their accounts are frozen the same way as everyone on the island.

I feel for you, but in the end it's out of their control.

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I agree with nickster.. That's not their fault that there is banking crysis on Cyprus. I'm sure they'll pay you your money and mine to me too

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Hit me up. I'm interested in knowing your concerns regarding offers.

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I understand that things happen that are out of their control. It has nothing to do with that. Their has been prior history before this, and if things were handled respectfully and with tact I would have zero problems waiting until next week. I don't need the money. It was Friday evening and I never even received a notification from them until I reached out.

And as far as it "being out of their control". Everything is in our control. Every situation I am in is 100% my responsibility and I try not to blame others because I put myself in the situations I am in, including this one.

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I'd never work with the network again and would take a bet at 2 to 1 odds that Cyprus has very little to do with your delayed payments. What you just described already in delaying with them previously is classic evidence of a shitty company you should stay far away from. When someone has my payment details on file and has successfully sent wires to me I will immediately stop working with them and never again if they try to tell me, "The wire cannot go through." because I can assure you that when that happens it's because they are delaying 100% of the time. Nothing else makes any sense.

Even if none of that previous stuff had happened and this all was just a Cyprus banking issue they still handled it in a way I'd never do business with them again if I were you. A mass email should have gone out ASAP and everyone at that company should be in full on kiss ass mode not "it's not our fault so don't you dare expect us to say sorry for it" because it is their fault. The owners should then be looking to find a way to get the cash ASAP not just dissolve themselves of responsibility.

Know what Jason from A4D did in 2009 when his company was stiffed for 7 figures total by advertisers? He immediately transferred personal assets into the company with no delay so he would not miss a single fucking payment. That's why A4D is a company worth working with while any company that has owners that sit on their ass and try to claim it's not their fault a bank account was frozen so tough shit you are not getting anything is not.

Seriously just stop working with these shitty companies.

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@naesm - hope you get your money. You earned it and I hope CD pays up.


Don't know if A4d has the offer you are running but if they don't they will usually try to get it for you. If you are not working with A4D, you should apply. They are top notch to work with - AM's are professional and always available and very helpful. I have never had a payment issue with A4D.

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I hope this doesn't turn out to be another EWA situation

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Have you done your due dilligence on this company?

I just had a quick look to see where they are registered - http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//companysearch

Clickdealer not a UK registered business but they claim to have their headquarters in London.

You can search for EU registered businesses here - http://www.ebr.org/ but its limited to some of the bigger countries

When I see conflicting information on a business I would clarify their business dealings before sending them 1 click.

You only get burned once to learn your lesson. If it sounds dodgy it usually is.

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^They are registered in the British Virgin Islands.

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ahhh...British Virgin Islands = tax heaven

From Wikipedia...

no capital gains tax,
no gift tax,
no sales tax or value added tax,
no profit tax,
no corporation tax, and
no inheritance tax or estate duty, but
contrary to popular belief, there is in fact income tax in the British Virgin Islands, but the rate of taxation has been set at zero

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Dont we have CD signed up here at STM?


I can't believe you didn't get weekly pay given the amount you can generate.

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Hate to pull an "I told you so" for the people I've spoken to on Skype regarding Clickdealer... but yeah. Usually when a new network with no reputation behind it is promising top tier payouts and boatloads of money... it's usually too good to be true. I've said it once, twice, three-million times... if you are looking for a network with international dating offers just hit up Adsimilis. Network that beats your payout? They'll match it. Offer they don't have? They'll get it. I have NEVER had an issue with payments from them and my AM is the best I've had at any network.

As always, split-test with other networks but DO YOUR RESEARCH.

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Probably cos of the timezone settings.

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What could timezones have to do with the payout of an offer? Maybe I mispoke, I just meant that the same offer on the two networks has been lower with adsimilis. But then again if we don't get paid it's kind of a moot point.

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/rant/rant nevermind

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Looks like the banks will open on Tuesday March 26th.

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also looks like banking is screwed in Cyprus whatever happens.

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Wow, update on Cyprus:

FIERCE negotiations to resurrect a deal for the EU and the IMF to bail out Cyprus appear to have wrapped up early, President Nicos Anastasiades has indicated on Twitter.

"Efforts have culminated", read a translation from the Greek, with EU sources subsequently stating that a preliminary agreement is in place to hit Bank of Cyprus depositors with a massive 40 per cent "haircut" on deposits of more than 100,000 euros pending endorsement by Eurogroup finance ministers.

40% is insane, let's hope CD isn't banking with Bank of Cyprus.

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That's crazy man, this isn't good at all

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I believe ClickDealer banks with HELLENIC BANK LTD

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Then everyone that run with CD should get paid this week. Banks open on Tuesday.

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Also not sure how this is supposed to help the cyprus banks, I assume everybody will empty their accounts on tuesday and that's it then...

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Not that simple. They set restrictions in place to prevent that from happening.

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Anything above 100k Euros will be frozen for now.

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...92G03I20130325

ya its ugly.....

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Hey guys, this is Alice from ClickDealer and wanted to clarify a few things that have been said about us here.

We are a BVI-registered network with HQ in London and our main bank IS Hellenic Bank, everything that has been said above is true. These decisions have been made tax-wise so I don't see anything wrong with that. This situation in Cyprus really is a force majeure and unfortunately is out of our control. This is the first time anything like that has happened but we will find a solution soon and will pay everyone tomorrow either from our Cyprus accounts after they get unblocked or from one of the accounts we have with other banks (in Europe and US) as soon as the money lands (we had to make a big transfer to have enough to pay all the affiliates).

I don't think anyone else can say that we ever refused to pay for no good reason or repeatedly delayed payments or anything. I'd appreciate it if affiliates who have a long history of cooperation with us backed me up here.

@naesm: The situation that happened with you Sean was unique - it was odd the payment didn't go through when we were sending it to the same account as 10 times before that. Maybe the problem was on your end but there was nothing my financial could do, the transaction was getting declined. Then u gave us a different acc and we transferred the money there and the only problem was that we sent your next payment to this same alternative account by mistake. I already apologized to you for that and don't know what else I should have done in that scenario.
In any case, I'm sorry again if you feel that you have not been treated right but as you probably understand, we don't want to continue cooperation with you. Please let me know when you receive your final payment and I will deactivate your account then.

Thank you everyone for participating in this discussion but I assure you, this is a temporary problem that will get solved, everyone will get paid and the payouts we offer are true and legit. Oh and we have nothing to do with Ryan Eagle J

Cheers,
Alice

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I am done posting in this thread until payment is made or there is some kind of tangible update. And at least we agree on one thing, as I'm sure you know my traffic stopped several days ago.

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Deactivating an account and ceasing all communication? Maybe there's more to the story, but ...harsh.

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Ok normally I don't step into these situations....but in this case I am gonna make an exception...

question for clickdealer is...did you email all your affs as soon as your bank accounts got locked?

The issue I see with all of this is....the OP made a solid point in his starting of this thread....banning him for posting about you being late on payments....seems..well kinda lame......because its true....whatever the reason may be....you still haven't paid...

and what I find most concerning is you are saying all affs will be paid....yet no one knows whats really gonna happen with accounts over 100k....unless I am clearly missing something....but its likely your funds may be locked up for a while....

to continue to have affs running traffic to you...under conditions like this....is IMO....very uncool....and I am not sure how your really justifying it....


I have no axe to burn with you as you owe me no money nor have I ever ran traffic to you....just something about they way your handling this...seems odd....

I surely do hope it works out in your favor for both your biz and your affs.....

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Wow, that is quite bold. I know I won't be sending you any traffic ever...

You sure? You sound a bit like him


Anyhoo, Naesm, really sorry to hear... But judging from "Alice's" answer here, affiliates are not appreciated over there, not even when the network is at fault and even admits to that. I hope you will receive your payment, and then you should take the money and run.

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Always pause everything out the second you don't get paid unless you have a great track record and it was a small error.

I think a lot of people have learned that lesson the hard way.

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Actually he made a very objective post without accusing you, just posting facts. The way you / your company reacts given the quoted response, I have strong doubts about your reputation going anywhere but down, at least on this forum. I never worked with your company nor am I owed anything, but coming out with such a statement to somebody who's done anything but starting a shitstorm doesn't imply trust in an industry your reputation and your affiliates trust is probably what you living from, at least for a major part.

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Hey guys,

To comment on a few posts above - account deactivation was a mutual decision discussed on skype, not something we do as soon as someone posts a negative review J
And I'm guessing there might be a little more history than discussed here so don't rush with your judgements please.

And yes, we did send out a notification to our affiliates and apologized for the delay in payments as we do value our partners.
We're looking for a solution now and I promise you the payment issue will be sorted out asap.

Cheers,
Alice

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This calls for a 'Business.. you're doing it wrong' meme because this issue would have been a perfect scenario to improve the way you run your network, gain trust, attract more affiliates and make more profit.

I, for one, applaud these kind of threads. It made me stop sending traffic to EWA the same day I got in to the network. They owe me just $0.70

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Just for the record, I never got a notication about this from you guys. I only paused my traffic because of this thread. No emails went to my spam folder either.

EDIT: I was just paid in full from ClickDealer- FEDWIRE CREDIT VIA: HSBC BANK USA

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Some of our advertisers are merchanting from Cyrpus and payments await. Regardless, our affiliates come first.

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For what it's worth, I got a notification from their HO platform on March 22 at 1:09 PM EST about the Cyprus issues. I know a bunch of network emails usually goto spam unless I whitelist the sender on my gmail, but I registered for CD with a cpanel domain-based email and essentially have no spam filtering.

edit: Just to have some transparency too, since a lot of this thread seems to be mostly people who aren't involved in this situation airing out their opinions of getting burned by Ryan Eagle (besides naesm), my experience with them has been handled pretty professionally. I saw that email at 1 PM, my AM contacted me on Skype to let me know there was an issue shortly after that (both before this thread was open). I wasn't encouraged to keep sending traffic or anything and my AM was professional enough to realize that here was not enough of a biz relationship built up to ask much of me until I was paid. There was no stand-offish attitude, and the communication was the proper amount that would indicate things were progressing. I was given a statement of deposit earlier, and the ~9k I was owed from last week posted to my account about half an hour ago.

I think everyone needs to do what's in their own best interests. Every time you work with a CPA network, no matter how reputable, you are taking a risk. If you go direct it's arguably just as risky (if not more so in my opinion). Blindly believing that you will always be paid on time no matter what happens is a childish attitude and reminiscent of someone who doesn't actually have a business model or contingency plans, and someone who doesn't weigh risks at all despite the fact that we live in a CHAOTIC world that changes all the time. If all the offers you are running you can get on other ad networks for the same payout or higher, and they've also never had issues and have a longer history, then by all means, there's no reason to take that extra risk.

For me, I was getting about an 85% higher payout a well-converting offer than any other CPA network that had it that I run with, and so for me, with my risk portfolio -- I'm willing to take that risk. I mean hell, if I ran the same offer for 2 weeks, one with CD and one with another network that had an 85% lower payout, and CD paid me out one week and next week went bankrupt, I'd still come out on top than running 2 weeks in a row with the network with a lower payout. Do the math, figure out what you're willing to risk. I've been stiffed for over 125k working direct on NET60 terms before, but I've also came out on top by matching my strategy with my risk portfolio in the long run. Do what you feel works for you. I would imagine though that as most people on this forum as AM's, the average risk tolerance and most importantly ability to weight and ADAPT to changing conditions would be our strong suit.

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I was paid today.


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Click Dealer Clikdealer clickdeeler clickdealer clikdealer clicdealer CD

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Alice, I was going to stop posting but you just won't stop, so here we go again. I don't like participating in this kind of negativity but I also can't allow misinformation to be posted about me specifically regarding what I said and what was "mutually agreed upon".

So here are some facts WITHOUT opinion:

The exact unedited Skype conversation:

ME:
[3/22/13 6:35:39 PM] ME: .23 gross over the last week.
[3/22/13 6:38:46 PM] ME: Also can I please get my wire confirmation for this week?

ALICE:
[3/22/13 6:50:43 PM] Alice ClickDealer: no it hasn't been wired out yet
[3/22/13 6:50:57 PM] Alice ClickDealer: there is a problem with all cyprus banks
[3/22/13 6:51:15 PM] Alice ClickDealer: they're adopting a new law and temporarily disabled all transactions
[3/22/13 6:51:31 PM] Alice ClickDealer: we were just going to send out the nofitication

ME:
[3/22/13 6:53:33 PM] ME: and????

ALICE:
[3/22/13 6:54:27 PM] Alice ClickDealer: and it will be sent early next week together with the next payment
[3/22/13 6:54:33 PM] Alice ClickDealer: nothing to panic about

[3/22/13 6:56:27 PM] ME: I don't panic. But again I come to you guys when there is an issue with getting paid.
[3/22/13 6:59:05 PM] ME: So have accounts been seized? What will change early next week.

[3/22/13 7:02:26 PM] Alice ClickDealer: listen, i'm tired of your attitude and demanding tone too
i've really done my best to always give u the new offers and highest payouts
there was one mistake, money was sent to your second account and now its always issues
to be honest, i've never had a problem or any kind of misunderstanding with any of my other affs the way it is with you
[3/22/13 7:02:35 PM] Alice ClickDealer: to answer your questions
[3/22/13 7:02:37 PM] Alice ClickDealer: it's not just us
[3/22/13 7:02:42 PM] Alice ClickDealer: it's all over the news
[3/22/13 7:02:53 PM] Alice ClickDealer: they're adopting a new bank law in cyprus
[3/22/13 7:03:13 PM] Alice ClickDealer: and temporarily froze all the accounts and transactions

[3/22/13 7:03:28 PM] ME: We are done.

[3/22/13 7:03:28 PM] Alice ClickDealer: so that people don't get their money out in the meantime
[3/22/13 7:03:37 PM] Alice ClickDealer: everything should be solved early next week
[3/22/13 7:04:46 PM] Alice ClickDealer: i didn't want it to be this way but you have kept this tone for the last 2 weeks or so
[3/22/13 7:04:54 PM] Alice ClickDealer: and i don't knwo what i did to deserve that
[3/22/13 7:05:22 PM] Alice ClickDealer: i already apologized for some delays in getting back to you
[3/22/13 7:05:25 PM] Alice ClickDealer: while i was out of office

[3/22/13 7:06:43 PM] ME: I will not argue and I will not try to make make you wrong or try to be right. I am your client, period. That is all I have to say. Please either transfer me to another AM and in the meantime I will consider whether I want to continue any kind of relationship with CD.

[3/22/13 7:08:58 PM] Alice ClickDealer: as you prefer
you've already communicated with Max so i'm just gonna reassign your account to him
i don't want there to be any hard feelings left and really hope you two can make it work better than you and i did
[3/22/13 9:44:36 PM] Alice ClickDealer: also, don't know if it's of any relevance for you now but decided to tell u anyway
we just reactivated clickandflirt ca (offer 202), that one seemed to be performing well for u in the past, u are welcome to give it another try

The email notification about the delay in payments was sent to me at 3/22/13 7:09 PM in my Gmail account but I can't say for sure when it was sent out to all other affiliates. These times are based on my timezone which is UTC+02:00.

As I read this again, we discussed being transferred to another AM but nothing more. So maybe you can tell me what I'm missing here?

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Stop crying now that you got paid and move on to another network. You definitely aren't one of ClickDealer's important affiliates so you are just one out of many crying on StackThatMoney about not being paid due to Cyprus laws.

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Mike - notification was sent to all affs who were on weekly payments, your payment frequency was still set to monthly at the time that's why you didn't receive our email.
And thanks for letting us know about the payment, glad you received it already!

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What are you talking about man? I switched networks the same day this happened. Already back to making money, actually I never stopped. And yea you are right, I obviously wasn't an important aff I only sent them $34,000 in less than two months.

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So why are you still posting the conversations with Alice for? I don't see her doing anything wrong at all. She told you the information she can reveal to you. There is nothing else she could have done.

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Why? Because she said in an open forum that we agreed to deactivate my account. I never agreed to that nor was it ever discussed. You really don't see an issue with that? Did you see anywhere where I wrote I wanted her or expected her to do anything?

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ok since the ops been paid and the network has said its bit.....this now has turned a bit ugly....dont really feel its worth continuing....

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